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BringerOfTruth

Open your eyes!

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Roel, God didn't just walk away from his creation. He has done much for us.

 

Where is the proof of that?

 

These people are compelled by compassion for the little ones of the world.

 

But still so many people have to suffer a whole lifetime, though some of them maybe lucky and die at a young age.

 

Look at the activities of the Church to see God's hand in helping the ones getting "beat up".

 

Sure, the church does good work. But everyone has the ability to love and help other people, you don't need god for that. There are just as many non-believers doing good in the world, as there are believers.

 

I could go on with this conversation for ages. It never bores me. But I think Stalker619 is right. It's an endless discussion. I am just as confident in my own right as you are. You won't give up your believes, I won't give up mine. I'm sure I will never believe in a god, just as you are sure you'll never stop believing. We both are entitled to our own believes.

 

Roel

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Yes you are correct. My faith in God will be with me forever.

 

It was a good thread to discuss the topic of God, but I too see that we are at an impasse. I don't really think I was trying to convert anyone with my posts, but rather just share what I believe to be the truth about God and his relationship with his people (the Church).

 

/bows to Roel

 

Jayson, by Church I definitely did not mean a building. I was refering to the group of people who believe in Jesus Christ as savior and who are therefore a member of the universal Church. Which, by the way, is referred to as the body of Christ.

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Let me ask you this: What would you do if you witnessed someone beat an innocent person to dead? Would you just stand there and do nothing, because that's exactly what god would be guilty of doing if he existed.

 

 

Well, if God exists, then there is a Heaven and therefore death is not the end. By not doing anything, God knows that this innocent person will enjoy their rewards in heaven.

 

Here's one: If you had the chance to beat an innocent person to death, and knew that you would never be found out(I don't know, you're a time-traveller or something - keeping things on topic :)), would you do it?

 

James

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Roel, Roel, you have misunderstood the meaning of my posts. Let me re-direct you into my meaning.

 

The mistakes I was referring to was the mistakes humans made in science in the past. Sure, mistakes do happen and we learn from it yes. Tell me something I don't know. So by saying if we make mistakes, we are continually progressing? What about let's say a perfect person like God. Does he progress? What do you think?

 

No offense, but you are human and being a human you are full of flaws, like me and everyone else here. But have you actually bother to read the bible? God didn't force the people to love him. He gave them a choice. It was up to them, what I'm actually doing is trying to convince you God is real. It doesn't matter which God. But there is someone up there watching you.

 

I believe that if there was a higher being, he should solve all our problems? So why do innocents suffer you ask, I beg your pardon, I have answered this in several posts but you have not managed to read or understand my explanation. We suffer because of our mistakes. Mistakes HURT people, mistakes HARM us. Yes, no? It has a positive/negative to it.

 

So if god made the universe, does he come from stardust no. So now I ask you, why do scientists assume that either the chicken or the egg comes first. So did you ever consider how human becomes intellectual was it out of the blue? Why did dinosaurs exist, did it just come out of the blue?

 

Oh, so you believe you should not be blamed for other's mistakes? Have you realised that mistakes are usually influences from our peers around us. You may not know it, but we may all be indirectly influencing people and causing them to make mistakes ourselves. But this does not answer why we are suffering the same fate as adam as eve. So let's say a mother has AIDS, and her baby is in her womb. It's the same way. By natural heritage. It's something that cannot be erased. Besides the fruit that was eaten have given us the ability to know right and wrong, which in turn we have our choice to commit sins and temptation leads us to sin.

 

How do you not know you're not suffering? Are you in some world with no sickness, no death no sadness? Do you know get minor physical injuries, setbacks, stress and guilt or a conscience I dare ask? Ok if God showed himself and he really healed the billions. Many would still reject him, or maybe misinterpret his doings. After all we share different comments even if its right in front of our eyes. When jesus came, many people were skeptical and called him the devil's son too. What makes you so sure you might believe a God in a human god will come to heal the billions. From what I think, skeptics will ignore it as a blatant lie!

 

There is evidence, except you expect people to show it to you? Have you ever seeked an answer from a local church pastor? Or a christian? The bible in its meaning means the Book and its the book god has handed over to us to refer from, so we might understand his ways and his salvation.

 

Sure religion has caused many conflicts. What about the soviet union total crushdown on religion, does that make anyone any happier? No, it resulted in worse conflicts. Conflicts in religion are based on differences on different aspects of religion, not by itself. Humans make mistakes right, so it would only be fair to think that war prevails even in religion.

 

Hm, so after all my posts, you are still skeptical. I do not wish to offend you. But I believe in god and I pray for you that one day you might be englightened and know him. God bless you Roel.

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i think youe the worst debater I've ever seen, pulling that "god if you exist do absolutly nothing" bull [censored]

 

 

OK, two points:

 

1. I used your logic on that one (remember the "god smite me" post you made) to prove the opposite point. So I guess you're with me at the bottom of the debating table...

2. You're obviously unable to detect sarcasm.

 

and don't ask me what he could do to solve it, i'm not god no am I? I don't know the limit of his powers?

 

 

Use your imagination. And if he's omnipotent there is no limit to his powers.

 

Can god create a bolder so big and heavy even he couldn't lift it?

 

 

I have a better question....

 

Is god capable of sin?

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Roel, Roel, you have misunderstood the meaning of my posts. Let me re-direct you into my meaning.

 

I think it's the otherway around buddy :)

 

So by saying if we make mistakes, we are continually progressing? What about let's say a perfect person like God. Does he progress? What do you think?

 

I'm not saying that, but mistakes help us to understand things better. However, if you make the same mistake over and over again, there's no progress. You say he's perfect, yet he managed to create something imperfect. No matter how you look at it, god made a mistake somewhere along the line. Giving us choice was onviously a bad idea. So from that perspective god can't possibly be perfect. And no, he's not making progress, his creation is still a mess.

 

No offense, but you are human and being a human you are full of flaws, like me and everyone else here.

 

In addition to what I said in the last paragraph; god created us to his own image. So I'll be happy to admit I have flaws, but so does god if he extists. I can't say I've read the whole bible, just the contradictory and historically flawed parts.

 

God didn't force the people to love him. He gave them a choice.

 

I never claimed that god forced the people to love him. You made me god for a day and asked me if I wanted the people to love or to hate me. If were a perfect god and I wanted the people to love me I'd make them love me.

 

It was up to them, what I'm actually doing is trying to convince you God is real. It doesn't matter which God. But there is someone up there watching you.

 

You can say god exists as many times as you want, but I'll claim the exact opposite every time. I don't believe there is someone watching over us. I don't believe in a creator.

 

So why do innocents suffer you ask, I beg your pardon, I have answered this in several posts but you have not managed to read or understand my explanation.

 

I thought I was the only one getting tired of repeating the same thing over and over again. You tried to answer my question, but your answer was unsatisfactory. You keep saying I want god to solve things for me, but I'll say it one more time: I don't believe in god, therefore I don't expect him to solve things. In my opinion people should take their own responsibility. I know "we suffer because of our mistakes", but I don't see why innocent, godloving people should be the victim of that. Why doesn't god make people like me suffer, instead of those who support him.

 

So if god made the universe, does he come from stardust no.

 

Then where DID he come from. Scientists are constantly trying to find out how it all began, in contrast to people who believe in god and just unthinkingly accept that god was always here. So I ask you again: Where did god come from?

 

Why did dinosaurs exist, did it just come out of the blue?

 

No, dinosaurs did not come out of the blue. They evolved from more primitive creatures. Which reminds me, why is there no mention of dinosaurs in the bible? Dinosaurs became extinct long before man evolved, yet the bible states that humans existed from the beginning of the creation.

 

 

Oh, so you believe you should not be blamed for other's mistakes?

 

That's right. If you kill someone, why should I take the blame for it. More strongly still, you can read in the bible that "sons shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers". If you can't be punished for the sins of your father, how the hell can you be punished for anyone elses sins?

 

How do you not know you're not suffering? Are you in some world with no sickness, no death no sadness? Do you know get minor physical injuries, setbacks, stress and guilt or a conscience I dare ask?

 

 

I live in a world with sickness, death and sadness. Yet in this world, I'm living a happy life. I do not suffer in person. Those things you name are merely inconvenient. People in Somalia, Ethiopia, Sudan and the likes suffer. I see no reason for god to let these people suffer. They did nothing wrong and since god is said to be omnipotent he should be able to do something about it.

 

From what I think, skeptics will ignore it as a blatant lie!

 

If he comes down in person to heal billions, I'd drop down on my knees and devote the rest of my life to god-almighty. But since he did nothing of the kind, I see no reason to believe in him, let alone worship him.

 

There is evidence, except you expect people to show it to you?

 

Well, yes! If people want me to start believing, they will have to show me some evidence. I have no need for a religion, so why should I go to a church pastor for evidence that I think is non-existent in the first place? Some of my friends are christian though, but they haven't been able to provide me with any evidence whatsoever. But you say there's evidence... I can't think of any reason why you shouldn't show it to me?

 

...its the book god has handed over to us to refer from, so we might understand his ways and his salvation.

 

Yeah, some book he gave you! Since you read the bible you must have noticed all the inconsistancies, contradictions and historical flaws. If god is so perfect, why didn't he just provide us with a perfect bible? One that everyone can understand.

 

I do not wish to offend you. But I believe in god and I pray for you that one day you might be englightened and know him. God bless you Roel.

 

I do not wish to offend you either. You're a good person, we just don't share the same vision. Alllow me to speak freely: I think that, in a way, you feel sorry for me, because I'm not enlightened and do not know god. You feel that way because you are confident that what you believe is the truth. Yet you do not realize that I am just as confident in my own believes as you are. I don't believe in god and I never will, therefore your prayers are not very well spent. I thank you nonetheless and I can only hope that someday you'll at least think about if what you believe in is indeed the truth.

 

Roel

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If you want time for you to run slower relative for the rest of the world, climb a mountain. Time dilation occurs at a rate proporional to your distance form a gravitational field source. So if you want time to run faster relative to you go to the dead sea.

 

If you would like control your point in space time any vehical capable of 300 000 m/s or more will just about get you to any point in space and time. As you travel faster toward the speed of light time slows relative to the observer. As you hit light speed time for you is zero relative to the observer. Exclerate past the speed of light and you travel backwards in time relative to the observer. Tacyons travel at faster than light speeds. This would suggest there is a negative temporal reality or negative space time. This negative temporal reality, would provide a medium for reverse time travel.

 

Time travel is not a fiction, mathmaticaly speaking people on jet plains and in orbit age slower. This fact has been confirmed by atomic clocks. Time dilation is driven by grav fields. Given the nature of interstela space and the inverse square law all grav fields are interconected. Ergo there is no one point in the universe where time dilation will be exactly the same as that of the observer. This fact can only be observered in mathmatics due to its obtuse nature however it is a fact.

 

We are not realy talking about an advancement in Temporal Mechanics we are talking about an advancement in propultion systems.

 

Time is only usefull as a referance to the observer. The movement of time will all ways be witnessed as exactly the same no matter ones velocity or position with in a grav field. Even in a negative temorparl reality time would seem normal to the observed. We only call it negative becasue it is just that to the observer. The concept of direction with in the dimention of time is the same of all the other dimentions, that is to say movement with in the dimention of time can only be understood as a relationship between the observer and the observed. Take away one of these verables and our concept of time and space goes out of the window. Ergo Timespace is only relative to the observer. To you your concept of time and space always stays the same, that is to say no matter what time machiene or propultion system you poses, you will always be at the centre of your conceptual universe and forever stuck in this thing we call the present.

 

Reality is the fact that we never go any where. Energy transforms and moves around us creating the illusion of time space. One may not move any where, as one is forever at the centre of ones conceptual universe, and that is always the same place unless you have an observer.

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I think that it is possible to travel in time you just have to be going at the speed of light which they say is impossible so i guess well never know. :confused:

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I just joined this forum. There is so much I want to say, I hardly know where to start. But, I was inspired by BringerOfTruth, so I'll start there. He said "You CANNOT time travel. It's impossible! Humans never have or never will be able to." The Truth is, we do travel in time. I started my journey in 1945 and have, so far, traveled into the future 59 years. I gathered by BringerOfTruth's post that he is a Christian, and somehow, he believes that time travel is beyond God's Plan for man. However, I am sure he will recognize the addage that "Life (the present) is only a fleeting image." The last fleeting image is the past, and the next fleeting image is the future. BringerOfTruth would have you believe that you are "stuck" in the present image forever. I know what I just said is very simplistic to most of you, but it does serve to demonstrate the way a narrow mind thinks.

BringerOfTruth also said "I'm a full believer in a loving, caring, all-mighty God" and "once we die, we immediatly go either to Heaven or to Hell." Ok, the point I will make here has nothing to do with whether "a loving, caring, almighty God" will send some of us to Hell, although that would be a good discussion for some other board. Rather, it is interesting that he said "we immediatly go" when we die. What happened to his belief about "God mentioned nothing about creating a 'multiverse'[sic] or 'world-lines'." If that is true, then Hell (or Heaven) don't exist yet, and there are people dying every day. Where are they going if there are no "multiuniverses?"

One last point, as a Christian, BringerOfTruth should know that Christians will, one day, be as Christ. They will have his powers and abilities, just as he was immediately after his resurrection and before his Ascention. He could appear to walk through walls (or de-molecularize and re-molecularize at will). He could seemingly be at two places at once. Forget travel at the speed of light. We are talking about the speed of thought. Think it and you are there. And, I think that BringerOfTruth should dust off his Bible and read it word for word with an open mind rather than blindly accept what he has been taught by a Church that has had ions of experience deceiving people.

Then, perhaps, BringerOfTruth would change his ID to BringerOfWhatIUsedToBelieveIsTruthButNowAmNotSureSoIWillHaveToThinkAboutItSomeMore, if he can have one that long. :)

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