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WORDS FOR THE FUTURE, by John Titor

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WORDS FOR THE FUTURE

 

By John Titor

 

INTRO

 

It is a mistake to give anyone your unwavering belief (see footnote 1)...but you will find that out yourself in 2005. There is a civil war in the United States that starts in 2005. None of the things I have said will be a surprise. They were set in motion ten, twenty, even thirty years ago (footnote 2). Are you really surprised to find out that Iraq has nukes now or is that just BS to whip everyone up into accepting the next war (footnote 3)? This becomes apparent around 2004 as civil unrest develops near the next presidential election. That conflict flares up and down for 10 years. I think the war would be good for you and your society. Yes, I suppose you could stop it, I don't want to stop it. [World War Three] is a result of faulty politics and desparation from Western leadership during the US civil war. I would characterize the intolerance you have here as a result of ignorance and fear. I have observed that people with unfounded and irrational fears about their fellow man in this time have the luxury of not having their beliefs tested. On my world line, if a man doesn't pull his weight in the community, then we feel prejudice towards him as a burden to us. This feeling of shame he experiences then makes him realize his responsibilities. I believe your society is biologically geared for self-destruction.

 

I do not have a secret agenda but I have been paying a great deal of attention to your worldline. My interaction with you was not a direct mission parameter but it was a secondary mission protocol based on standing orders given to all temporal drivers. That secondary objective is basically to gather as much information about a worldline based on a set of observable variables when we first arrive. Your worldline met those conditions. I don't believe that knowing a possible future makes it happen. You are capable of changing your worldline for the better right now.

 

Your worldline is about 2.5% different than mine. This is a roughly cumulative measurement based on my arrival in 1975. As far as I can tell right now, you are headed toward the same events I would call "my history" in 2036. However, the very nature of time travel states that every worldline is unique and you are very much in control of what you do and how you get there. Heck, the fact that I'm here makes it different from mine. However, I am not confident things are different enough for you to avoid the conflict. You may also consider the possibility that a world with no war is far less desirable in the long run. This is the world in 2015 by James Langton in "New York Global Trends, 2015 - Central Intelligence Agency" (footnote 4). Your assumptions about causality [from a Civil then nuclear war] are correct but my personal morality still comes into play. I won't deviate from my three rules because of the way I would feel about myself.

 

I am curious- will anyone be upset if Florida's votes [in the 2000 election] are not counted in the Electoral College because of the current "confusion"? I would use the word "elections" a bit cautiously (footnote 5). Perhaps its easier now to see a civil war in your future? [All] while you sit by and watch your Constitution being torn away from you (footnote 6), you willfully eat poisoned food, buy manufactured products no one needs and turn an uncaring eye away from millions of people suffering and dying all around you. Have you considered that your society might be better off if half of you were dead? Please take a look at the front cover of this month's Popular Mechanics because it's a great example of your legacy to 2036 after the war. One side of the cover it describes in great detail how your government is [al]ready spying on you (footnote 7). On the other side (and just as important) it tells you how to install a hot tub.

 

THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR (CW II): 2004-2015

 

The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I would define [the Civil War] as a conflict where organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict. Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers? There are a great many "non lethal" weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal (footnote 8). Sometimes I watch your television programs that show SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons. They usually start out with, "In the future, the army and police will fight its enemies with new weapons systems". When they use the word "enemy", they're talking about YOU! You don't really think the Marines are going to jump out of helicopters overseas with sticky goop (footnote 9), pepper spray and seizure lights (footnote 9a), do you? There are [currently] a great many "non lethal" weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal. Anyone for microwave popcorn? (footnote 10)

 

The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in was over, by 2008 the civil conflict is pretty much at everyone's doorstep. The first U.S. civil war lasted [from 2004-2008] and the English civil war lasted [from 2004-2010]. You must realize that why people are fighting is more important that what they are fighting with. The conflict was not about taking and holding ground, it was about order and rights. They were betting that people wanted security instead of freedom and they were wrong. When the civil "conflict" started and got worse, people generally decided to either stay in the cities and lose most of their civil rights under the guise of security or leave the cities for more isolated and rural areas. Our home was searched once and the neighbor across the street was arrested for some unknown reason. That convinced my father to leave the city. When the moment comes it will be absolutely plain as day that you are unsafe in the cities. The millions people that stay will choose to stay. That's what comes as a surprise. When the time comes, I'm sure people will find the signs they are looking for that leads them to the end of time.

 

On my world line in 2011, the United States is in the middle of a civil war that has dramatic effects on most of the other Western governments. I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse. Outright open fighting was common by then and I joined a shotgun infantry unit in 2011.

 

In my 2012, I was 14 years old spending most of my time living, running and hiding in the woods and rivers of central Florida. The civil war was in its 7th year and the world war was three years away. Yes, there are unusual events in 2012 but they do not cause the world to end. Unfortunately, I have decided not to discuss events that you or I can do anything about. It is important that they be a surprise. Perhaps you are familiar with the story of the Red Sea and the Egyptians? (footnote 11)

 

WORLD WAR THREE: 2015

 

The [Civil War] conflict will consume everyone in the US by 2012 and end in 2015 with a very short WWIII; western instability [led to] the civil war [which] ended in 2015 when Russia attacked the U.S. cities (our enemy), China and Europe. Russia's enemy in the United States is not you, the average person. Russia's enemy is the United States government. The "enemy" that was attacked by Russia in the U.S. was the forces of the government you live under right now.

 

Was the President in 2005 also on the enemy side? Was the President in 2009 on the enemy side? How did you feel personally about these Presidents? The President or "leader" in 2005 I believe tried desperately to be the next Lincoln and hold the country together but many of their policies drove a larger wedge into the Bill of Rights (footnote 12). The President in 2009 was interested only in keeping his/her power base. In my experience, evil may be powerful, but they aren't very bright.

 

In 2015, Russia launches a nuclear strike against the major cities in the United States (which is the "other side" of the civil war from my perspective), China and Europe. The United States counter attacks. The US cities are destroyed along with the AFE (American Federal Empire) (footnote 13)...thus we (in the country) won. The European Union and China were also destroyed. Russia is now our largest trading partner and the Capitol of the US was moved to Omaha Nebraska. When [the exact date the nuclear war] comes, it will not be a surprise.

 

Nuclear war will be very effective at destroying an enemy's economy and the people's will to fight. [A lot of the United States' 18-24 age group slaughtered in the war because of Draft.] WWIII is very short with a longer period of mop up. It's hard to say what the exact racial make up of the U.S is [in the future]. I would say it's probably the same minus 130 million people or so. [All told, on Earth we succeeded in wiping out the right three billion people.]

 

WORLD WAR III ABROAD

 

[Regarding the Arabs and Jews in the Middle East] Real disruptions in world events begin with the destabilization of the West as a result of degrading US foreign policy and consistency. This becomes apparent around 2004 as civil unrest develops near the next presidential election. [Arabs and Jews] are not directly involved but political situations are dependant on Western stability, which collapses in 2005. The Jewish population in Israel is not prepared for a true offensive war, they are prepared for the ultimate defense (footnote 14). Wavering western support for Israel is what gives Israel's neighbors the confidence to attack. The last resort for a defensive Israel and it's offensive Arab neighbors is to use weapons of mass destruction. In the grand scheme of things, the war in the middle-east is a part of what's to come, not the cause. [biological and nuclear weapons are used] [n]ot against America but they are used against each other. [EDITORS NOTE: America's direct involvement in the Middle East started two years later and continues today]. I'm glad to see it's so easy for to dismiss the Middle East .Yes, I suppose it is a no brainer but pretty soon it will be a "no arrmer" and a "no legger". (footnote 15)

 

[America's] attack on Europe is in response to a unified European army that masses and moves East from Germany [Poland, the Czech Republic and Austria share borders to the East]. I would caution against [saying it is a full-blown World War 3]. That's exactly what "they" want you to think while they continue to develop smaller and more accurate MIRVs. Have you ever seen a neutron bomb the size of a basketball?" (footnote 16)

 

[America] will become very unstable which gives China the confidence to "expand". I'm assuming you are all aware that China has millions of male soldiers right now that they know will never be able to find wives. I guess you could say that [Korea will be reunified]. Taiwan, Japan and Korea were all "forcefully annexed" before N Day. Russia and China have always had a very strange relationship. Even the news I see now indicates that continued weapons deals to allies, border clashes and overpopulation will lead to hostilities. [China's] ability to hit Western cities with missiles made a lot of people unhappy.

 

There were deep divisions in Australia also. I would associate it more with a powder keg than a civil war. Texas is still there but Spanish is a lot more popular. I believe the Amish are alive and well. South America went relatively unharmed. However, there is still a great deal of internal conflict with conventional arms. One of [the Pyramids in Egypt] was severely damaged. I've noticed that when most Americans think about Canada in this time, they think about pine trees, chooks and back-bacon. It may interest you to know that most Canadians in 2036 are some of the most efficient, ruthless and dangerous people I know. God help Quebec. There's not a great deal I know about Canada except to say they were pretty much in the same type of conflict. They did have the Dew Line you know. (footnote 17)

 

[The world] [t]emprature is about the same although there were anomalies after the war. The animal Kingdom is alive and well. I'm sure it suffered but there fewer people infringing on animal's habitats now. The ice caps are not melting any faster than they are now. There is also far less smog and industrial waste in 2036. You asked about the North Polar ice pack. I never said the environment wasn't a problem. Doesn't water expand when it freezes? If the polar ice cap melted, wouldn't sea level go down? I don't know if there's enough ice for this to make a difference and I'm not an expert on global warming.

 

In the future, sociologists spend a great of time discussing the collective mentality before the war that led to the demise of "Homo Materia". Many of them point to an experiment that was done in the 1970's or 1980's. The experiment isolated various sizes of rat populations in varying cage sizes with varying food and cleaning schedules. It was discovered that no matter what, there was a certain ratio of rats to space that once overtaken by population would always lead to aggressive and destructive behavior in the rats until enough of them had died or been killed to get back under the ratio. This was true even when the rats that were given plenty of food and had their cage cleaned every day. (footnote 18)

 

AMERICAN CITIES VS RURAL AREAS

 

Your enemy was in the cities. Take a close look at the county by county voting map from the last elections [to see which counties or states are safer than others] (footnote 19). [in regards to exactly who will be fighting who in American and the world] are you familiar with the Russian partisan movement in WWII? (footnote 20)

 

Mostly cities and large military areas in the entire country [were hit with nuclear weapons]. Cities become targets because of their military and economic value. Any large area supported by a civil infrastructure is likely to be on that list. The cities were not isolated because of [the resistance/militia]; they were isolated because of us. In my opinion, people "now" take clean water, electricity and their feeling of safety for granted. If they leave the city in search of fresh water they first have to make the realization that fresh water is a problem. It's much easier to demand someone else owes you fresh water than it is to leave the lifestyle that made it bad in the first place.

 

AMERICAN LIBERTIES

 

Civil liberties [become] more important. You will feel the same after having your house searched a couple of times. My definition of a patriot is anyone who defends the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. The people with the most to lose if the world changes [are the least trustworthy] -Camel through the eye of a needle? (footnote 21) I would submit to you that the law is only as good as the people's willingness to apply it evenly and swiftly. (footnote 22)

 

Throughout history, farmers have often been a target of oppression because they are absolutely necessary to civilization but too busy to defend themselves. If you push a farmer too far, they stop growing food and have nothing to do but hide in the woods and shoot back. The idea of a farmer general leaving his fields to lead his country's troops to victory is an old one going back, at least, to Roman times. Lucius Quintus Cincinnatus, I believe, was the gentleman's name, from the 5th Century B.C. Roman Republic. If you push a farmer too far, they stop growing food and have nothing to do but hide in the woods and shoot back. By that time, it was pretty clear that we were not going back to what we had and the division between the "cities" and the "country" was well defined. I believe it was a few days ago I saw a news story about potential problems with power that "might" affect the entire United States. Where do you think they'll turn it off first when push comes to shove?

 

POLITICAL FALLOUT FROM THE WAR

 

After the war, the United States had split into five separate regions based on the various factors and military objectives they each had. There was a great deal of anger directed toward the Federal government and a revival of states rights was becoming paramount. However, in their attempt to create an economic form of government, the political and military leaders at the time decided to hold one last Constitutional Congress in order to present a psychological cohesion from the old system. During this Congress, the leaders discovered and decided that coming up with a new and better form of government was nearly impossible. The original Constitution itself was not the problem it was the ignorance of the people that lived under it.

 

[in the future] [t]he office of President is far more diluted and decentralized than it is here. The powers of the national government are more defined and reside more at the county and state level.

 

In my opinion, the Gen Xr's (footnote 23) ended up in two categories. There were the ones who had learned to be independent by breaking away from tradition and societies expectations and the others who had no idea how to take care of themselves and just wanted the trains to run on time. The ones in the first group feel very guilty about "letting" the world go to Hell and the ones in the second group are dead.

 

For a few months now, I have been trying to alert anyone that would listen to the possibility of a civil war in the United States in 2005. I refer to a historical example. Before Pearl Harbor was attacked in 1941, a small group of US soldiers were experimenting with a new technology called RADAR. As the Japanese planes were flying toward the island, they actually picked them up in time to thwart the surprise attack. Unfortunately, they were unfamiliar with the equipment and figured it wasn't working correctly. As you are aware, the ruthlessness of the Japanese "sneak" attack galvanized the US people into entering WWII. [The conflict is not radical in any way.] In fact, I would say it goes a long way toward erasing racial problems. [No one leads a reasonably normal life during the civil war.] [The enemy] will be the ones arresting and holding people without due process.

 

[Drugs are] not really an issue of the government letting you do something, It's more like they have other things to worry about. Don't you feel you're capable of taking care of yourself? If you want to take mood-altering drugs, why should my opinions stop you from that? They don't stop you from taking alcohol, tobacco or fast food. [The police will stop busting people for smoking weed] about the same time they stop coming to your house when you dial 911.

 

TECHNOLOGY IN THE FUTURE

 

Technology is not gone in 2036 nor is it the private domain of "government" leaders. Computer printers just didn't work very well on 12 volts and many people just got used to doing things the old way (footnote 24). After the war, the main problem was distribution. Can anyone tell me how many companies in the United States still manufacture bicycle tires today? Anyone who still has a bike in 2008 will find out. (footnote 25)Horses are good [for transportation] if you can feed and water them. Also, it's very hard to eat a bicycle.

 

Yes, EMP took out a great number of electronic devices. That's one of the reasons why we don't have reliable technology laying around (footnote 26). However, in the opening hours of N Day, the Russians did not launch any high altitude detonations. They knew we would most likely clean up after them so they wanted everyone outside the cities to be able to communicate. Most of the warheads that hit the cities came in threes and exploded close to the ground. The heavy EMP damage was isolated to those areas.

 

Main communication systems [are gone in the future], CB, sideband and non-repeating short-wave [are still in use].

 

Although [the time machine specs] were printed from a computer printer, is it really that hard to believe that manual typing is just a bit more common in thirty years? After the war, many things like manual printing machines, bicycles, sailboats and hand tools were valued a great deal. I have noticed more people in California are installing wood burning stoves.

 

The air is about the same although I do smell and taste industrial odors here my parents cannot. The food in the future is grown and raised naturally inside the community structure. This is done primarily for safety reasons. I am amazed at the risks people here are willing to take with processed food. All of the food I eat here is grown and prepared by myself or my family. Unfortunately, I do not know if we are acquainted on my worldline. Yes, love is a challenge. What's harder is knowing you could go back and correct a mistake but at the cost of the "you" on that worldline you want to live your life over again on.

 

Actually, you will probably be quite impressed with our internet. It's based on a series of independent, self-powered nodes that are mobile and can be put up anywhere (footnote 27). It looks a great deal like your current cell phone system. Yes, there is an entertainment industry. Again, it is very decentralized. The technology to express yourself with video is so readily available that many people do it all by themselves or in small groups. Much of the distribution is over the web. I would compare it theater here. Books and other literature are available but most of the distribution is via the net. (footnote 28)

 

[Propane still around in the future,] but not very much of it comes from natural gas. Hydrogen is converted into propane because it's easier to handle. (footnote 29)

 

[As far as a safe distance from a nuclear attack] A 10 Kiloton nuclear weapon will vaporize metal for about a mile and have a heat effect for about 3 miles. A 100 Megaton nuclear weapon will vaporize metal to 35 miles and have a heat effect to about 250 miles. I believe the largest nuclear weapon ever built and tested was about 60 megatons. As I recall, the popular strategy toady is to strike targets with multiple numbers of smaller warheads. The 100 Kt to 1 Mt are the most popular. I believe there are about 150 - 200 major cities in the US and half as many military targets. [People will die in this order] Starvation - Disease - Bullet Wounds - Radiation.

Biological warfare and accidents do cause a great deal of problems but the lack of a working infrastructure also hinders the continuation of the food manufacturing you depend on now.

 

JOHN TITOR'S FINAL WORDS

[Titor's first post on his last day of posting]

In the last few days I have found your choice of topics quite interesting and from an objective viewpoint I think it collectively answers one of your own questions, "If time travel is real, where are all the time travelers"? In the past, I have stated that quite frankly, you all scare the Hell out of me and I'm sure other temporal drivers would feel the same. But now I have an expanded explanation with two examples. A while ago (on one of the posts), I related an experience I had with my parents while we were driving down a highway. Every now and then, we would pass someone who was in obvious distress with their vehicle. I was amazed that so many people could pass them by without stopping to help. Their explanation was fear. The risk of helping someone was too great and with today's technology, they probably had a cell phone anyway. If they didn't, the walk to a gas station would be good for them and teach them a lesson for running out of gas. The other example is the plight of the homeless. When you pass them as individuals on the street I see the way people selectively choose an alternate path to avoid them. Those two examples best define why time travelers do not show themselves. In trying to help you, we put ourselves a[t] great risk and there's really no point to it. We know the nature of time dictates that traveling between "exact" worldlines is impossible. Therefore, the only results we will see will be the ones we stay to see. Since worldlines, outcomes and events are infinite, we have better things to do. When I arrive in the "new" 1998 worldline on my way home I could easily start all of this again and continue to go through the same conversations with all of the same people. However, I already know you won't pay any attention or believe me because we've already been through it on this worldline. Besides, I think the walk to the gas station will do you some good.

 

[Titor's last words on this chatlog]

Bring a gas can with you when the car dies on the side of the road.

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FOOTNOTES

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1. Re: Unwavering belief

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=35376

"Wilson shared with all his predecessors an unwavering belief in American exceptionalism. "It was as if in the Providence of God a continent had been kept unused and waiting for a peaceful people who loved liberty and the rights of men more than they loved anything else, to come and set up an unselfish commonwealth." But whereas that claim had always been used to argue that America would lose its soul if it went abroad in search of monsters to destroy, Wilson turned it on its head. America would lose its soul if it did not go abroad. His liberal internationalism set forth a moral argument for broad American engagement in world affairs." Bush has long been considered to be a modern-day Woodrow Wilson.

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2. http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/statistics/gasoline_cpi_adjusted.html

"Historical Yearly Average California Gasoline Prices per Gallon 1970 to 2005 Based on 2005 Dollars, Adjusted for Inflation"

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3. http://www.antiwar.com/orig/zunes.php?articleid=8054

"Indeed, even prior to the return of United Nations inspectors in December 2002 and the U.S. invasion of Iraq four months later, it is hard to understand how anyone could have taken seriously the administration's claims that Iraq was somehow a grave national security threat to the United States. And, despite assertions by administration apologists that "everybody" thought Saddam Hussein possessed chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction (WMD) and an advanced nuclear program immediately prior to the March 2003 invasion, the record shows that such claims were strongly contested, even within the U.S. government."

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4. http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/globaltrends2015/

"Global Trends 2015: A Dialogue About the Future With Nongovernment Experts"

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5. http://www.fraudfactor.com/ff2kelectionfraud.html

A directory of 2000 Election mistally websites.

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6. http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0203-03.htm

"USA Patriot Act is Latest in Series of Bad Laws"

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7. http://www.popularmechanics.com/albums?mode=view&album=2001&pic=200104.jpg&dispsize=400&start=0&c=y

April 2001 Popular Mechanics Cover: "How our government spies on you"

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8. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/non-lethal.htm

"Non-Lethal weapons shall not be required to have a zero probability of producing fatalities or permanent injuries."

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9. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/non-lethal.htm

"Anti-traction material (ATM) is a very slippery, gel-like substance sprayed on ground surfaces to prevent access to areas by people and vehicles."

9a. "A pulsed-energy projectile (PEP) is under development that uses a chemical laser technology to produce a large flash, bang, and shock wave to temporarily disorient and incapacitate individuals in a crowd."

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10. http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-03-11-popcorn-study_x.htm

"The Environmental Protection Agency is studying the chemicals released into the air when a bag of microwave popcorn is popped or opened. Exposure to vapors from butter flavoring in microwave popcorn has been linked to a rare lung disease contracted by factory workers in Missouri, Illinois, Iowa and Nebraska. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health has said it suspects the chemical diacetyl caused the illnesses."

http://www.osha.gov/dts/chemicalsampling/data/CH_231710.html

"One of four rats died after a 6-hour exposure to vapors from heated (55°C) artificial butter flavoring containing 285 ppm diacetyl (~64% of total VOCs)"

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11. http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/programmes/moses/evidence/redsea.shtml

 

The parting of the Reed sea may be from a Tsunami

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12. http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1132127,00.html

 

"I do understand that President Lincoln was quite slow in liberating the slaves in the United States," Roh said. "This was because the President, if he took the lead in this issue, he thought that America would be divided in opinion, and this would be very serious. In reality, the Civil War did take place, and because of this issue of slaves, there was a situation where the United States was in jeopardy, and because of that, he had to go through a process to ensure that the country would stay together." -South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun to George Bush in press conference, 11/17/05

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13. There is no "American Federal Empire" but that name may be a reference to the "liberating Americans" in Iraq.

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14. Two sources: http://www.themodernreligion.com/jihad/despair.html

 

"A comprehensive agreement is undoubtedly out of the question now. For only after total despair on the part of the Arabs, despair that will come not only from the failure of the disturbances and the attempt at rebellion, but also as a consequence of our growth in the country, may the Arabs possibly acquiesce to a Jewish Eretz Israel." - David Ben-Gurion, 1936

And http://www.antiwar.com/orig/howard.php?articleid=4065

 

"Israel's leaders are apt to portray the prospect of an Iranian nuclear warhead in highly apocalyptic terms. Earlier this year, for example, Ariel Sharon was prepared to call Iran "the biggest danger to the existence of Israel" and warned that "Israel will not allow Iran to be equipped with a nuclear weapon."

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15. "No armer" and "no legger" may refer to suicide bombers.

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16. MIRV: A Multiple Independently targetable Re-entry Vehicle: a type of payload fitted on long-range guided missiles.

 

"Have you ever seen a neutron bomb the size of a basketball?"

Tactical neutron bombs are primarily intended to kill soldiers who are protected by armor. Armored vehicles are very resistant to blast and heat produced by nuclear weapons, but steel armor can reduce neutron radiation only by a modest amount so the lethal range from neutrons greatly exceeds that of other weapon effects. Also called ENHANCED RADIATION WARHEAD, specialized type of small thermonuclear weapon that produces minimal blast and heat but which releases large amounts of lethal radiation.

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17. Quebec is north of New York and Boston (but so are the Amish).

 

The Distant Early Warning (DEW) Line began on 15 February 1954 when President Eisenhower signed the bill approving the construction. The DEW Line was designed and built during the "Cold War" as the primary line of air defence warning of an "Over the Pole" invasion of the North American Continent. The actual construction of the 58 sites took place between 1955 and 1957. Many tons of supplies and equipment were moved to the Arctic by air, sea and river barge. One such carrier, the USAF 62nd Airlift Wing, moved over 13 million pounds of materiel in this monumental effort. The DEW Line was declared fully operational on 31 Jul 1957. The DEW Line was centered along the 70th parallel. It was the first line of air defence for the North American Continent.

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18. http://world-information.org/wio/infostructure/100437611777/100438658827?opmode=contents

 

"Many years ago, the German philosopher Günther Anders already described the historical situation in which the homo creator and homo materia coincide as the "third industrial revolution"...The "third industrial revolution" is characterized by men becoming the "raw material" of their own industries. Product and producer, production and consumption, technology and nature are no longer meaningful pairs of opposites. The third is also the last revolution, as it is difficult to think of further revolutions when the distinction between subject and object becomes blurred. The world is becoming a Bestand and the human body and mind are no protected zones."

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19. http://www.mob-rule.com/counties/electoral.html

The map shows an all red midwest and a parthwork eastern seaboard. Some have theorized that means an eruption at Yellowstone, others believe the patchwork east leads to internal conflict = civil war. The image is absolutely huge.

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20. The Soviet partisans were members of the anti-fascist resistance movement which fought against the occupation of the Soviet Union by Axis forces during World War II. At the end of June 1941, immediately after German forces crossed the Soviet border, the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolshevik) ordered Party members to organize an underground resistance in the occupied territories (pre-war plans for such operation existed). Partisans waged guerrilla warfare against the occupiers, and enjoyed increasing support from the local population which was antagonized by German brutality.Partisans consisted of people left behind the German lines, including escapees from German prisoner of war camps, and refugees from the German terror. No formal recruitment procedures existed.

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21. Matthew 19:24 "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God."

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22. "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse form the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations has been 200 years. -- Alexander Tyler

See also http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp

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23. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X

"Generation X describes the generation following the baby boom, especially Americans and Canadians born in the 1960s and 1970s. The term is used in demographics, the social sciences, marketing, and more broadly in popular culture."

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24. http://laptop.media.mit.edu/

 

Crank-up $100 laptop computers, for distribution to third world countries with no electricity.

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25. China is clearly the world leader in bicycle tire production.

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26. http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/5971/emp.html

 

This might be useful information. May also explain why Titor needed a 5100 from the past.

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27. http://www.ee.ic.ac.uk/optical/BSN05_final.pdf (NOTE: This is a pdf file)

"Modelling for Optimisation of Self-Powered Wireless Sensor Nodes", published in 2005.

________________________________________________________________________________

 

28. "The technology to express yourself with video is so readily available that many people do it all by themselves or in small groups. Much of the distribution is over the web. I would compare it theater here. Books and other literature are available but most of the distribution is via the net."

 

It's not a huge leap of faith to conclude Apple will release an IPod that can shoot and transmit video images in the near future; we are working towards having every book ever written online.

________________________________________________________________________________

 

29. "Hydrogen is converted into propane because it's easier to handle."

 

http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/hydrogen/research/fuelcells.htm

"A fuel cell converts the chemical energy in hydrogen and oxygen into direct current electrical energy by electrochemical reactions. Fuel cells are devices that convert hydrogen gas directly into low-voltage, direct current electricity. The cell has no moving parts." This may also refer to an invention not yet invented.

________________________________________________________________________________

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OTHER NOTEWORTHY COMMENTS BY JOHN TITOR

 

*The ability for war sleeps in each one of us and we must decide what we will do before the beast awakens. As for morality, again I point to the "universal" balance of good and evil. For every worldline where there is peace, there is a worldline that has destroyed itself.

 

*Yes, there are a great many people who think that Revelations has come to pass. However, the new fear is that Christ has returned, he's not telling us and he's very angry.

 

*When I say fear will keep you alive I am talking about the natural instincts and premonitions that we all trun off when its convienent. The same person who has five dead bolt locks on their door will think nothing about getting into a parking garage elevator with a total stranger.

 

*[What other predictions can you tell us?] Answer- You mean other than the mad cow pandemic, the breakthroughs in high-energy physics and the unknown functions of the 5100?

 

*Should we be stockpiling guns? Answer- The answer to this is NO! You will draw a great deal of negative attention to yourself. I recommend become familiar with firearms. This means taking a safety course and learning to shoot and clean many different types. There will be plenty of guns around when you need them.

 

*Q- There is no way for you to know if there is no future world leader reading this and believing. Answer- Are you sure about that? Besides, I think you can have just as much impact as any "future leader".

 

*Perhaps it goes without saying but I would urge everyone to listen to Art's show tonight. [NOTE: This was the information from that night's show: "]http://www.lunaranomalies.com/fake-moon.htm]

 

*Be mobile. Set aside the things you absolutely would need and can carry on your back. You will not be able to stay anywhere indefinitely even with provisions and firearms.

 

*No I cant [talk about the possibility of Earthquakes in the west]. Besides, I see others predicting earthquakes and very few people pay any attention to them.

 

*The big one [in California]? As you are experiencing now, there are earthquakes, storms and other unfortunate surprises from Mother Nature that have impacts on your society and future history. That is one reason I won't go into detail. However, don't worry too much about major portions of coastline slipping under water.

 

*Do you have an increase in tornados and earthquakes than what we have now? is the average temperature in Florida in your time about the same as it is here? or is it different? Answer- That's one area I've decided not to talk about...sorry. The average temperature worldwide is a bit cooler.

 

DAILY LIFE IN THE FUTURE

 

*Yes, we have cameras. More digital. Film is used like painting is today. No hologram camera though.

 

*Yes we have phones but the service is through the web. Most power generation is localized. It amazes me how much power is wasted now. Yes, solar is big. There is thought that a singularity generator could also be used but most people are against it.

 

*Do companys like Microsoft, Yahoo!, and other internet software companys still exist? Answer- No.

 

*Again, entertainment is less centralized. There are "movies" and "tv" but everything is distributed over the net and more people produce their own "shows".

 

*Does China have a manned space program between 2001 and 2036? Answer- I believe they are pretty close to putting a man in orbit. It shouldn't surprise you if they do that soon.

 

*Yes [there is an active market for new books] but there are no large commercial printing and distribution companies. Books and other forms of hard media are distributed on the web and printed or put on other media from local hubs. Napster + mailboxes etc.

 

*What happens to Bill Gates between now and 2036? Answer- This I do know but I won't discuss.

 

*Do people wear chips yet? Answer- No. People value their personal independence and ability to take care of themselves.

 

*On my worldline, we are no longer afraid of the "NWO". Are you afraid of Nazis?

 

*As a result of the many conflicts, no, there were no official Olympics after 2004. However, it appears they may be revived in in 2040.

 

HEALTH ISSUES

 

*The "Mad Cow" story here is yet to begin but don't worry, the fruited jellitine deserts are safe.

 

*Have you discovered the cure for cancer or aids yet? Answer- Aids...no. Cancer...some progress.

 

*I don't know if the government created AIDS. I tend to think yes but controlling it escaped them as it mutated. You can?t have conspiracy to limit the population with a disease without the cure.

 

*Do most of the people of that time die out, especially ones that currently have health problems?

Answer- Yes, and people are still dying and a great deal of them are passing from CJD. As I said, with my very first few posts almost 6 months ago, I want to emphasize how devastating this will be. I believe two people are confirmed dead in Colorado from CDJ from surgical instruments. Ahhhh, the power of cheese. Milk does a body good and beef is what's for dinner!

 

TECHNICAL/SPECIFIC TIME TRAVEL INFORMATION

 

*There are numerous people and organizations that contribute to the practical application of physical time travel. I think you would be surprised how much real work is being done right now.

 

*The general public was informed about time travel around 2034. Yes, I have had conversations with other time travelers on my home worldline. Your insight on the public is more or less correct. I would say 60% of the people realize what it is and the possible implications, 20% of the people don't care, 10% don?t believe it and another 10% see it as something that should be banned and stopped.

 

*Does the government know there is TT going on? Answer- In 2036, yes.

 

*The reason that I ask this question is that we don?t know that GE isn't, in fact, working on this device as we speak. Answer- They might be now.

 

*[i challenge you to] debunk my calculations on time travel. You can't, because you are a fraud!

When I look up debunk, I see: "To expose or ridicule the falseness, sham or exaggerated claims." The reason I cannot debunk your calculations is because they are true. They are not false, based on speculative facts or exaggerated. They are just incomplete. What you really want me to do is finish your explanation or I will be an imposter.

 

*It has always surprised me why that concept is so hard for people to imagine and accept [what would happen if you met yourself on another timeline]. Nothing would happen. The universe would not end and there are no paradox problems that threaten existence. Temporal space-time is made up of every possible quantum state. The Everett Wheeler model is correct.

 

*I'm pretty sure they have a number of experiments going on at the same time at CERN. The one I'm referring to involves very high energies using protons. From my historical perspective on my worldline, I do recall the issue was a point of contention about 18 months ago or so. There were some scientists who thought the experiments were too dangerous to try. The time travel I refer to does not require faster than light travel and due to multiple world "reality", paradoxes do not occur. Natural time machines do exist.

 

*My asking you if the mention of CERN going on-line and discovering this and that, was a prediction was a genuine question completely un-related to "making a Buck". I wondered if it was just a hint you were giving as to something that could be verified after the fact with little chance of you mentioning it having an effect on it.?

Answer- Please do not be offended by my "making a buck" remark. I say it with a wink to help other people form their questions. Yes, some very interesting things will be going on at CERN in the near future.

 

*Perhaps it would have been clearer to state that the math has been around since 1970. I would urge you to examine the properties of Kerr black holes and Tipler cylinders. An actual working prototype was first tested in 2034. On my worldline, time travel is not a public recreation but we are all aware that it exists. You may be disappointed to know that the ability to manipulate gravity is not the technical challenge that had to be overcome. Miniaturizing the clocks and sensors, creating clever ways to vent x-rays and creating a computer system dependable enough to calculate the changes required to the field were the main challenges. There are no missing pieces, just missing energy levels and a few very interesting subatomic particles

 

*I have never claimed to be a physicist or an expert on what the CERN laboratory is doing at any given moment so I feel it is pointless to argue about what they may be doing in the future or what "breakthroughs" they will or might have. My comments about the CERN lab are in reference to particle accelerators in general and other questions that have come up in the past. The major physics break through for controlled gravity distortion does happen at CERN in your future. Heck, we haven't even touched on "Z" field compression yet. I suppose I could say that I was the one that traveled in time and convinced them to change their experiments but even I would have a hard time believing that one and I do not wish to insult your intelligence.

 

1. ACCELERATION = TIME DIALATION As pointed out earlier, acceleration will produce time dilation. This can be observed by the "twins paradox". As one twin stays on Earth, the other twin in his accelerating spaceship experiences a slower passing of time. When he returns to Earth, he is noticeably younger than his twin who aged normally in Earth time. This type of "time travel" (should have been proven already on this worldline) with atomic clock experiments. With sufficient power, this type of time travel will only provide practical displacement in a future direction. This type of time travel is also isolated to a single worldline. You will not meet yourself.

 

2. GRAVITY = ACCELERATION As Einstein pointed out with his STR, the effects of gravity and acceleration are the same. Therefore, you will experience the same time travel effects in the twin paradox by being close to a large gravity source. In the atomic clock experiments mentioned above, the reason there was a difference in time was not because the clock in the plane was moving, it was because the clock in the well was closer to the center of the Earth. Constant speed is not acceleration.

 

3. LARGE GRAVITY = STATIC BLACK HOLE The next step is to find a large gravity source to use in your time machine. Static black holes provide this type of power. As one twin approaches the event horizon or edge of the black hole, the other twin will watch him as he appears to slow down. He will notice his twin's watch run slower until it stops at the event horizon. The twin moving toward the horizon will notice none of this and see his watch running just fine. Although possible, a trip into a static black hole will not take you to another worldline and it's one-way. The force of gravity will crush you.

 

4. ROTATING BLACK HOLE = DONUT-SHAPED SINGULARITY Fortunately, most black holes are not static. They spin. Spinning black holes are often referred to as Kerr black holes. A Kerr black hole has two interesting properties. One, they have two event horizons and two, the singularity is not a point, it looks more like a donut. These odd properties also have a pronounced affect on the black hole's gravity. There are vectors where you can approach the singularity without being crushed by gravity. (For those interested in seeing a graphic of a photon trip through a Kerr black hole, try here) http://qso.lanl.gov/~bromley/nu_nofun.html

 

5. DONUT-SHAPED SINGULARITY = PASSAGE INTO ALTERNATE WORLDLINE Another other more interesting result of passing through a donut singularity is that you travel through time by passing into another universe or worldline. Please see Penrose diagrams for Kerr Black holes or you can examine the calculations of Frank Tipler. So now the problem becomes "where do we find a donut-shaped singularity"?

 

6. A PONDERING HAWKING = MICROSINGULARITY Steven Hawking proposed the existence of microsingularities that were created in the big bang. They were probably about the size of a proton and disappeared over the years due to an effect of radiation evaporation. (Yes, black holes do emit energy.)

 

7. HIGH ENERGY PHYSICS = ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY When I first started posting online a few months ago, I said that major breakthroughs in particle physics were around your corner. Soon, CERN will bring their big machine on line and they will be smashing very fast and high-energy particles together. One of the more odd and potentially dangerous items produced from this incease in energy will be microsingularities a fraction of the size of an electron. (for those who would like to follow the developments at CERN) http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/Welcome.html

 

8. ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY = LOCALIZED KERR FIELD Through trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 - 500 megawatts), it's discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and captured. It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified singularities also have two event horizons. By spinning these various microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.

 

9. LOCALIZED KERR FIELD = TIPLER SINUSOID By using two microsingularites in close proximity to each other, it is possible to create, manipulate and alter the Kerr fields to create a Tipler gravity sinusoid. This field can be adjusted, rotated and moved in order to simulate the movement of mass through a donut-shaped singularity and into an alternate world line. Thus, safe time travel.

 

*Yes, there are significant advances in computer science. It's interesting how easy it is to be fixated on the "machine" itself without any curiosity about many of the support systems. This is not really big news but if / then is out and if /then /maybe is in.

 

*There are, however, certain quantities that do remain constant. These constants are related to four-dimensional quantities known as metric tensors.

Answer- Actually, I don't think that's correct. Minkowski spacetime (4-D) will not allow you to use Pythagoas' theorem to decribe tensors because time needs to be expressed with the opposite sign. (please excuse my change of varibale case). ds^2 = -c^2dt^2 + dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 (where ds describes timelike and spacelike trips). The tensor we should be discussing is: ds^2 = -a^2dt^2 + w^2(df - wdt)^2 + (r^2/ D)dr^2 + r^2dq^2 I hope I got the symbols right but you should be able to recognize this"right" nuts... the a, f, r, Delta and q didn't make the translation in this font.

 

*You see a time machine. I see a very powerful weapons system ? an x-ray emitter with directional control. It?s there in the drawing.

Answer- Yes I suppose that is one thing you could do with it. I could also cut my hand off with a power saw or heat up a crowd of people with a microwave. However, I believe Teller already came up with an X-ray laser that destroys itself after going off.

 

*What you do on your world line is your own business. I can't think of any better way to start a war than for someone to figure out how to make a time machine. Go for it.

____________________

 

*As far as evidence goes? I have however decided to try an experiment with you that may be more convincing. It involves the travel of information at faster than light. In fact, I have dropped at least three little gems like this that no one else has picked up on.

 

(EDITORS NOTE: Here are three open-ended questions that turn out today to have more meaning, all of them written before 12/30/00:

1. I would use the word "elections" a bit cautiously.

2. I am curious? will anyone be upset if Florida's votes are not counted in the Electoral College because of the current "confusion"?

3. Perhaps you are familiar with the story of the Red Sea and the Egyptians?)

____________________

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Nearly 2006 Johnny boy. We will soon see the Bulls**t you've been spreading as truth.

 

 

Yep. 43 days to be exact. I am wondering what the motivation is for people like jmpet to so fervently try to convince people that "Titor was right".

 

RMT

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Poorichard writes:

>haha, I really didn't read this post until after I posted onto the "WORDS FOR THE FUTURE, by John Titor," that jmpet made up. Crazy to think that I said that at the same time this came up!<

>maybe he is titor???<

 

1. I am not John Titor.

 

2. WORDS FROM THE FUTURE is not made up nor written by me. It was compiled from every prediction made by Titor between 11/02/00 and 3/24/01; every word there is John Titor's with the exception of words in brackets, which is paraphrasing Titor's words to make them more cohesive as a flow of thought. WORDS FROM THE FUTURE is all John Titor.

 

I'll give an example, here are some posts which were cleaned up to become one flow of thought and presented in a speech-format. If you re-read WORDS FROM THE FUTURE, you'll see these comments applied throughout:

---------------------------------------------

07 November 2000 21:23 (about the future) 34

pamela: 6.what started the war? and who fought in it? who won?what countries were destroyed and what survived?

timetravel_0: Wow...that's a big question. There is a civil war in the United States that starts in 2005. That conflict flares up and down for 10 years. In 2015, Russia launches a nuclear strike against the major cities in the United States (which is the "other side" of the civil war from my perspective), China and Europe . The United States counter attacks. The US cities are destroyed along with the AFE (American Federal Empire)...thus we (in the country) won. The European Union and China were also destroyed. Russia is now our largest trading partner and the Capitol of the US was moved to Omaha Nebraska .

 

07 November 2000 21:23 (predictions for the future) 35

There is a civil war in the United States that starts in 2005

 

07 November 2000 21:23 (predictions for the future) 36

In 2015, Russia launches a nuclear strike against the major cities in the United States (which is the "other side" of the civil war from my perspective), China and Europe .

 

07 November 2000 21:23 (predictions for the future) 37

The US cities are destroyed along with the AFE (American Federal Empire)...thus we (in the country) won.

 

07 November 2000 21:23 (predictions for the future) 38

The European Union and China were also destroyed.

 

07 November 2000 21:23 (about the future) 39

Russia is now our largest trading partner and the Capitol of the US was moved to Omaha Nebraska .

 

11 November 2000 18:56 (safety, suggestions, assorted philosophy) 70

(Let me guess, you are here NOW to look at the unusual hung election we have going on. Or maybe this is the trigger event in the comming world wide econmic meltdown? Some other piviot point in history? Fess up. Why now?)

I would use the word "elections" a bit cautiously. Perhaps its easier now to see a civil war in your future?

 

02/08/01 13:18 (about the future) 307

((Korea United?))

I guess you could say that. Taiwan, Japan and Korea were all ?forcefully annexed? before N Day.

------------------------------------------------

WORDS FROM THE FUTURE is John Titor for people who don't have the time to read the 20,000 word chatlog but still want the pertinent information from it.

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With the sheer content of information John Titor presented us with, and it all comes together to portray one continuous thought with no outright contradictions over a four month period, I am amazed that anyone can read all of that and come to ANY summarialistic conclusion, particularly an educated mind.

 

For example, I refer to footnote 12, which is South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun's words from YESTERDAY which ties nicely with what Titor said FIVE YEARS AGO:

 

John Titor: How did you feel personally about these Presidents? The President or "leader" in 2005 I believe tried desperately to be the next Lincoln and hold the country together but many of their policies drove a larger wedge into the Bill of Rights.

 

South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun from 11/17/05: "I do understand that President Lincoln was quite slow in liberating the slaves in the United States," Roh said. "This was because the President, if he took the lead in this issue, he thought that America would be divided in opinion, and this would be very serious. In reality, the Civil War did take place, and because of this issue of slaves, there was a situation where the United States was in jeopardy, and because of that, he had to go through a process to ensure that the country would stay together."

 

I simply do not want to get in the way of John Titor's very own words with mine, I think I did a good job of doing that; I only brought John Titor's message to light once again; John Titor had a point to make and it appears to have been lost, here it is again.

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every word there is John Titor's with the exception of words in brackets, which is paraphrasing Titor's words to make them more cohesive as a flow of thought.

 

That is a revisionist's tactic. Most often used as a form of propaganda to further one's own agenda.

 

I simply do not want to get in the way of John Titor's very own words with mine, I think I did a good job of doing that

 

That's funny... you don't think the "paraphrasing" you did to "make them more cohesive" is getting in the way of Titor's actual words? I do.

 

And beyond that, I'd have to say that all your "interpretive" footnotes certainly do smell like you putting your own spin on what Titor "meant". If you are so convinced by Titor's words, why (like all other Titorites) do you feel the need to embellish them at all? Certainly, the only reason to embellish them would be to serve your own agenda. And what would that agenda be, Mr. Jmpet?

 

RMT

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My agenda is to get John Titor's words out. That's it, nothing more.

 

What is your agenda? Why are you here? Why do you shoot anyone down that doesn't agree with you? Why are you such a jackass? Are you truly that blind that you can't open your eyes and look objectively at something? You really think there's only one way to see things- YOUR WAY, right? And you teach people? No wonder this country is the 17th in the world!

 

I didn't ask you to post here. Heck- in all honesty, no one here wants you here, it's just that no one here is willing to take you on. Either that, or they already tried taking you on and discovered you really are that naive. A few people already PM'ed me saying that, they must be right- you really are that ignorant.

 

I did not compile that for your review, I did for everyone's. And you are not the spokesperson for this website either, and very few people actually value your opinion. There are very few posts here, I wonder why? Maybe because you shoot everyone down everytime they post?

 

Well- here it is: John Titor's description of how his time machine works. And here you are, attacking me instead of using your maths to disprove him. Just like when GoodScientist started a thread to seek truths for time travel and you posted "good luck" instead of "I'll take you up on that offer" here you are shooting at people instead of addressing the science, scientist. Amazing.

 

Ya know there's nothing worse than an armchair warrior because it's so much easier to attack people's opinions or theories or ideas than come up with your own.

 

What if John Titor was really a time traveller? One thing's for sure- the world wouldn't need aerospace engineers anymore.

 

Since you're not addressing John Titor's description of the time machine I have to conclude that you don't disagree with it, so therefore you should shut the hell up already. And even if you don't, since you've made up your mind that he's a phony because he doesn't call an apple a chocolate cake, we can all be happy knowing that you won't be here in 43 days when "he's debunked". Either way we should celebrate- it's the end of YOU.

 

Why do I constantly have to rehash everything with you? Why can't you just leave me the hell alone? And how come no one here is defending me? Are we to believe that everyone here agrees with your delusional BS? SPEAK UP, PEOPLE!

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Why can't you just leave me the hell alone?

 

I am free to post. You are free to post. That is how freedom works. Right?

And how come no one here is defending me? Are we to believe that everyone here agrees with your delusional BS? SPEAK UP, PEOPLE!

 

Well, this certainly says a lot about you. Seems you are acting like your are drowning and asking for others to bail you out. I don't see the need to call others here to support me, or my views. I don't ask them to, or solicit them to back me. In fact, I ask people to falsify my theories. And yet there are some here who have stated their agreement with at least some of what I am saying. Huh.... funny.

 

If you really want me to answer all your questions in this post, I can. But I don't think you ask them seriously. Still, I might just answer them all later this weekend, for the fun of it. I mean you did ASK all these questions... whether you really want the answers is another thing altogether, eh?

 

RMT

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Nah, let's just stick to the science of it. Well- there it is- John Titor's own words that describe time travel. The floor's all yours.

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Why do I constantly have to rehash everything with you? Why can't you just leave me the hell alone? And how come no one here is defending me? Are we to believe that everyone here agrees with your delusional BS? SPEAK UP, PEOPLE!

 

 

 

I won't speak for anyone else. The reason I don't post is I grow tired of the constant bickering/bashing/smacking people around.

 

Jmpet, I appreciated your compiling of Titor's statements. I did not find it biased in any way.

 

I do not believe that Titor was a timetraveller, persay. I do believe he somehow knew what was to happen in the future. The pictures were fake, probably so that he could remain anonymous.

 

There are many that share this belief. They probably won't post because of the hostile environment. Look what happened to the timetraveller you had here earlier this year. Instead of asking questions he/she was run off. And this is a timetravel forum!

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jmpet,

 

What if John Titor was really a time traveller? One thing's for sure- the world wouldn't need aerospace engineers anymore.

 

 

 

Actually, you're wrong. If John Titor was a time traveler his world really would need aerospace engineers. The reason for that is because according to Titor neither he nor his physicists understood the mechanics of space-time.

 

You see, Titor said that his world didn't have a significant space travel capability. The crackpot even posted the appropriate Minkowski formula (which you repeated) and he still didn't "get it".

 

And I'm going to bet that you don't get it either.

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jumpjet,

 

Why do I constantly have to rehash everything with you? Why can't you just leave me the hell alone? And how come no one here is defending me? Are we to believe that everyone here agrees with your delusional BS? SPEAK UP, PEOPLE!

 

 

 

You accuse Rainman of being "delusional" and do so inside a post wherein you describe yourself as a poor, brooding, bullied, ignored and isolated martyr who is being persecuted on a time travel forum.

 

Don't you think that maybe Rainman might come away from this as being "opinionated" while you might come away as being "psychotic"?

 

Let's place it in perspective: the whining post that I'm responding to coupled with the Oh, my God Awfully Long Cut & Paste Missives leading up to it: Prior to my making this post do you really believe that anyone other than you actually read them from beginning to end? No sane person spents that much time in an attempt to accomplish absolutely nothing...I did use the word "sane" didn't I?

 

Did it ever occur to you that no one has jumped in to defend you because maybe, just maybe you're wrong about Titor and Rainman and that no one feeels the slightest bit of a heart string of angst for your "plight"? Maybe they haven't come to your defense because they don't agree with you - or your posts were just too damned long and boring for them to read thus they aren't even aware that you have a plight for them to be concerned about.

 

Just a thought.

 

Notice, BTW, that I've come to the aid of Rainman. The fact that I have done so casts some serious doubts on your previous post relative to "most people's" opinion of him and it also sheds some light of truth on Rainman's assertion that you tend to embellish facts in your posts.

 

And another BTW:

 

Your agenda - to get Titor's words out. While we thank you very much for being Titor's biographer I hate to rain (or is that Rainman?) on your parade. Been there and done that. Been doing it for almost six years - as has Raul B.

 

Titor's words have been available here and on other sites (dozens of them) verbatim. No editorials, no "footnotes" and in context. The Mystic Fish did the original out of context (but without editorial comments) compilation of Titor several years ago.

----------------------------

This whole "poor me" complaint that you make resolves to your posts being about you rather than being about Titor.

 

Don't get me wrong. There's nothing wrong with posting about yourself. But when you say it's about Titor rather than yourself and you don't get any response it appears that the only person that you fooled was...you.

 

The bottom line here is that this really is a time travel forum and not the Boy Scout's BBS. And this is the Internet. The chances of having a debate about time travel and not having it get contentious is about the same chance that John Titor is a time traveler. Rainman has an online personna and he stays in character. I guarantee you that he isn't gong anywhere.

 

So it would appear that you either join in the fun and stop whining or find another time travel BBS where everyone on the board is a Titorite. You won't have any arguments, everyone will agree with everyone else and then they will gather around one of Titor's riverside campfires and sing Kumbaya to the sounds of an acoustic guitar.

 

Sounds like loads of fun. :)

 

Just a(nother) thought .

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Hello Darby-

 

Nice to hear from you. Raul speaks very highly of you. Aren't you on one the original posters from here? It's an honor.

 

>What if John Titor was really a time traveller? One thing's for sure- the world wouldn't need aerospace engineers anymore.<

 

>>Actually, you're wrong. If John Titor was a time traveler his world really would need aerospace engineers. The reason for that is because according to Titor neither he nor his physicists understood the mechanics of space-time.<<

 

This was a pot shot at RainmanTime. Titor wrote something about being able to go to the moon in a spaceship but not being able to get back, hence the pot shot and it makes sense too- assuming you believe in the time machine you would simply alter one of the VGL sensors.

 

>You accuse Rainman of being "delusional" and do so inside a post wherein you describe yourself as a poor, brooding, bullied, ignored and isolated martyr who is being persecuted on a time travel forum.<

 

Yup.

 

>Don't you think that maybe Rainman might come away from this as being "opinionated" while you might come away as being "psychotic"?<

 

Yup.

 

>Prior to my making this post do you really believe that anyone other than you actually read them from beginning to end?<

 

Nope.

 

>No sane person spents that much time in an attempt to accomplish absolutely nothing<

 

Not really. My coming to this website in the first place was to look for any more information on John Titor. Instead of seeing anything that resembles a debate in any form over any length of time I saw Rainman adding his "50 cent" to any and all posts. As far as accomplishing something, the letter at the top of this board is an accomplishment. If a handful of people read Titor's words for the first time here and now, it was worth it. If someone else reads then years from now, it's an accomplishment. The point is to present Titor's words as objectively as possible.

 

My problem with Tinman is that he is killing the message. At the heart of the matter, whether or not you believe John Titor is secondary to the simple point of getting the information out.

 

>Did it ever occur to you that no one has jumped in to defend you because maybe, just maybe you're wrong about Titor and Rainman and that no one feeels the slightest bit of a heart string of angst for your "plight"?<

 

After a little thought, no. But once again, my issue is with Rainman dismissing the whole of Titor's words based on a few he disagrees with. As I told him once, If I told you I could predict winners in horse races and in actuality I only predicted second and third place winners, there is still knowledge to be gleaned from that.

 

>Maybe they haven't come to your defense because they don't agree with you<

 

I never said I believe John Titor either! And I don't! I will go as far as say I believe John Titor 90% of his words, the other 10% of the information he gave is simply illogical. For example, I find it hard to believe that in post-apocolyptic world with five large communities instead of 50 states and a decentralized government whose economy is based on agriculture they decided to spend one billion dollars to make a time machine that would work but never return the time traveller. Closest John Titor came to addressing that was him saying something like "I will be returning to one of many futures that needs the 5100." I just don't buy that. But once again, the message is important.

 

>or your posts were just too damned long and boring for them to read thus they aren't even aware that you have a plight for them to be concerned about.<

 

I definetly thought about that. I brought that up in one of my first posts right after Rainman started the cut&paste rant.

 

>Notice, BTW, that I've come to the aid of Rainman. The fact that I have done so casts some serious doubts on your previous post relative to "most people's" opinion of him and it also sheds some light of truth on Rainman's assertion that you tend to embellish facts in your posts.<

 

Once again considering the context and considering Rainman started with my fourth post and since then has posted generally sarcastic posts that chastise me at every turn of the road, usually with emoticons at the end, perhaps I did get over defensive. How paitent are you with people who take an automatic negative posture to everything you say?

 

>Your agenda - to get Titor's words out. While we thank you very much for being Titor's biographer I hate to rain (or is that Rainman?) on your parade. Been there and done that. Been doing it for almost six years - as has Raul B.<

 

I would call myself Titor's biographer is I gave myself credit for it. I have not posted my personal information anywhere here, I did not sign the edited note, footnotes or other notes- I did not take credit for writing that. If I did then you'd have a valid argument, see below.

 

>Titor's words have been available here and on other sites (dozens of them) verbatim. No editorials, no "footnotes" and in context. The Mystic Fish did the original out of context (but without editorial comments) compilation of Titor several years ago.<

 

Had I known about that I would not have done it. Where can I see it? I see no reference to it anywhere here.

 

>Don't get me wrong. There's nothing wrong with posting about yourself. But when you say it's about Titor rather than yourself and you don't get any response it appears that the only person that you fooled was...you.<

 

If I wrote "by John Titor... EDITED BY ME, BECAUSE I AM #1" then I would see your point. I never took credit, I still don't take credit. I got the words out, I did my job.

 

>The bottom line here is that this really is a time travel forum and not the Boy Scout's BBS. And this is the Internet. The chances of having a debate about time travel and not having it get contentious is about the same chance that John Titor is a time traveler.<

 

Agreed. However, of all the places you can go and be a nutjob wacko and post time travelling theories, this is one of the very few places you can and get away with it. Using your logic, then why are Titor's original posts still here?

 

>Rainman has an online personna and he stays in character. I guarantee you that he isn't gong anywhere.<

 

Then I will.

 

>So it would appear that you either join in the fun and stop whining or find another time travel BBS where everyone on the board is a Titorite.<

 

But alas, there is no fun in Titorville, because Rainman strikes out everyone.

 

Always look on the bright side of life!

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WORDS FROM THE FUTURE is John Titor for people who don't have the time to read the 20,000 word chatlog but still want the pertinent information from it.

 

 

It was a well written revision and I have enjoyed re-reading it all. Well done!

 

This is not a great study whether Mr Titor was a hoax or not!

It is simply a re-post with some discussion points.

 

Thank you Jimpet

 

It is interesting that the arguments still continue about the validity of the statements that JT made. It is certain that these posts were in indeed posted by the person claiming to be the man. I don't think that the arguments will ever finish as to whether he was a real time traveller or a fake but I will not shoot anyone down that has offers a thoughtful analysis of the catalogue of JT statements. The science of any time travel claim will always be debated until it is proven or disproved.

 

After all, isn't that the reason why we are all fascinated by the story of Mr Titor?

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It is interesting that the arguments still continue about the validity of the statements that JT made. It is certain that these posts were in indeed posted by the person claiming to be the man. I don't think that the arguments will ever finish as to whether he was a real time traveller or a fake but I will not shoot anyone down that has offers a thoughtful analysis of the catalogue of JT statements. The science of any time travel claim will always be debated until it is proven or disproved.

 

After all, isn't that the reason why we are all fascinated by the story of Mr Titor?

 

 

Very good points.

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>It is interesting that the arguments still continue about the validity of the statements that JT made. It is certain that these posts were in indeed posted by the person claiming to be the man.<

 

If nothing else, it's a hell of a good story, something that should not be dismissed and ridiculed. It's information, a lot of what he said is true but you can only speak the truth if you talk ethically and if nothing else, Titor was an ethical person.

 

>I don't think that the arguments will ever finish as to whether he was a real time traveller or a fake but I will not shoot anyone down that has offers a thoughtful analysis of the catalogue of JT statements. The science of any time travel claim will always be debated until it is proven or disproved.<

 

I have three people I think are John Titor, I'll PM them to whomever wants and for good reason.

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I have three people I think are John Titor, I'll PM them to whomever wants and for good reason.

 

 

Go on then, I'll take a look at who you think Titor is/was, I just wanna know what you think.

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I sent both of you guys my three guesses, feel free to post your thoughts here but please don't name the #3 guy, okay?

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Why? are you scared :P

 

Seriously though, the number 2 suggestion made me laugh, but It's certainly not impossible by any means, and it would be funny if it was him.

 

#3 seems too much like a conspiracy, but it's not impossible either.

 

#1 Is the most likely by a long shot.

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