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Mylo.X.

Is the Earth stationary, or does it revolve around the sun?

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seivtcho said:
How about trying to detect the movement of a car with it?

Yes, the experiment has evolved since Michelson and Morley created it. Now the experiment is done in labs across the nation with high precision using lasers. And the concept was used to develop the Laser Gyro. I believe the Laser Gyro is used in military helicopters to help hover the helicopter autonomously. So in answer to your question if you put one in a car, it would detect the movement of the car.

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Tell me more about this device? Where is the source and where is the sensor? Are they traveling both, or the sensor is static relative to the light sourse?

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Einstein said:
My stance is that the data is correct. But the interpretation is not.

So how do you interpret the data?

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"Mylo.X. said:
So how do you interpret the data?

I do favor the idea that the earth creates its own electromagnetic reference frame that rotates with the earth. This reference frame appears to be separate and distinct from the dimensional length reference frame that we use to visibly describe the apparent rotation of the earth. Two different reference frames coexisting in the same space? This does seem like evidence for the presence of extra dimensions. Each type of reference frame behaves according to its own rules.

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Einstein said:
I do favor the idea that the earth creates its own electromagnetic reference frame that rotates with the earth. This reference frame appears to be separate and distinct from the dimensional length reference frame that we use to visibly describe the apparent rotation of the earth. Two different reference frames coexisting in the same space? This does seem like evidence for the presence of extra dimensions. Each type of reference frame behaves according to its own rules.

This kinda sounds like a "theory". I thought you didn't believe in them?:)

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Gpa said:
This kinda sounds like a "theory". I thought you didn't believe in them?:)

I don't believe in theories. We can assemble the existing facts together to form a picture of our reality. The facts should have a voice all their own.

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Gpa said:
"...favor(ing) the idea..." has little to do with facts.

True. The reference frames are a fact. The idea of extra dimensions would be the theory. I'm all in favor of gathering more facts, instead of promulgating a preferred idea.

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Einstein;

I do like you and you and I can agree on some theories being "less than" valid. I have always had an issue with "theoretical" physics and cosmology. Theoretical physics... what a job. Use an understanding of "known" physics and "make stuff up" that no one could possibly ever prove... nor disprove. Cosmology... guess how far away stuff in space, that can't be measured, is from the earth... a relatively insignificant vantage point. This topic allows me to disclose that view.

I personally have no problem with the earth being at the center of the universe. Since the "center" of the universe is indeterminable, any point is as good as any other. ?

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Gpa said:

... I personally have no problem with the earth being at the center of the universe. Since the "center" of the universe is indeterminable, any point is as good as any other. ?

I already wrote about that in previous answers of this topic. This according to me is the trick, that this particular pseudo science relies on. The entire story for the entire universe rotating around the earth, smells of religious propaganda from its beginning to its end, as a rotten fish will smell if someone puts it in your car. Unfortunately, I am not a skilled enough scientist or investigator to prove it.

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Quote

Is the Earth Stationary or is it Revolving around the Sun?

Are we actually having this "debate"? Really?

Michio Kaku was recently lamenting the fact that at City College of New York the physics department had at that time exactly ZERO American born PhD candidates. Nationwide only 15% of physics PhD candidates are American born. He said the US education system is turning out functional idiots with respect to science.

And here we are, mostly Americans, having a debate on an issue that was resolved over 400 years ago. There's nothing to debate.

Shhhhhh. It's a secret but we've actually looked at the solar system from space! Space far, far away from Earth. Does the Sun revolve around the Earth, indeed. <sigh>

So here's a better question: In a geocentric system, as viewed from the Earth frame, please explain with precision the retrograde motion of [non-Earth] planetary orbits. If you succeed be prepared to receive your Nobel Prize. You will have simultaneously proven Einstein wrong, disproved virtually every conservation law of physics, disproved all three of Newtons laws of motion and will be able to shout, "Hidebound reactionary!" with no Baez Crank Index penalty.

Well...before that Nobel comes you'll probably be asked to provide an entire set of physical laws to replace Classical Mechanics , Special and General Relativity.

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Darby said:
Are we actually having this "debate"? Really?

Yes, we are having this debate. There is data to show both points of view are equally valid. So it's really not an either or scenario. It's both.

I might point out that a laser gyro uses the stationary reference frame that makes the Earth appear to be the center of the universe.

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Einstein said:
Yes, we are having this debate. There is data to show both points of view are equally valid. So it's really not an either or scenario. It's both.

Point for Dr. Kaku.

You can counter Dr. Kaku's point (which is approaching match point) by explaining the retrograde motion of the planets.

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Einstein said:
I might point out that a laser gyro uses the stationary reference frame that makes the Earth appear to be the center of the universe.

Whoever got you to believe that little fallacy must have really done a number on you. The gyro itself is based on rate interferometry, and therefore has no preferred reference whatsoever.

RMT

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RainmanTime said:
Whoever got you to believe that little fallacy must have really done a number on you. The gyro itself is based on rate interferometry, and therefore has no preferred reference whatsoever.

RMT

You have no idea what you are talking about. Or you are deliberately lying. It doesn't make any difference to me. You have never added anything constructive to a debate so far. You're just a troll. Nothing new there. So stay out of the thread.

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Einstein said:
You have no idea what you are talking about.

Unfortunately, especially in this area I know exactly what I am talking about. And this one is even more laughable than your attempted explanation of how a mechanical gyro works.

Quote
So stay out of the thread.

Now why would I want to do that? You can always report this to Cosmo. Let him decide.

RMT

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Yuh know Ray, I think we can resolve this problem. We set up a manned mission to Mars, see. We put 'ol einsatein in the capsule and in all of our calculations we make Earth the semi stationary center of the "solar" system, see. Then we launch 'im.

In so doing we can resolve the issue of two threads, actually. We'll give einstein an all-day sucker and pack a him a large lunch because he's going to be on this trip to Mars for a "while". In so doing we resolve the issue of this thread: Earth is obviously not the center of the solar system. In the bonus round we also get to resolve the issue of "does infinity exist" because that's how long it will take for him to arrive on Mars. (Apologies to einstein for the sucker and lunch...they aren't infinite.)

Oh, wait! Crap! You mean that when we launch "things" into space we have to know the actual angular orbital velocity of both the launch site and target if we actually want to hit the target? Someone...Kepler?...worked our orbital mechanics 400 years ago? Damn. ?

Yikes! A body (the Sun) with a mass of 2x10^30 kg orbits about a central object (Earth) that only has a mass of 6x10^24 kg, i.e. the object that is 333,000 times more massive orbits the Earth at a distance of almost 100 million miles?

Kaku is correct. Every village has an idiot and America is raising up a whole lot of villages. And I think that there's more than one idiot per village.

There's equal evidence for both arguments, indeed. Gawd almighty help us all. We are doomed.

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It is not the village idiots. The problem is much harder to be resolved. It is the religion making a crusade against the science. You can't even imagine what nonsenses are being tried to be established as an official science. There are scientists, who are propagating, that the Earth is flat, it is only several thousand years old, and it is impossible to be millions of years old, the evolution didn't happen at all, the radio carbon test for dating objects is not a correct measurement, but is a scientific mistake, the dinosaurs never existed, and as you see from this topic, that the Earth is the center of the universe, and the universe is obviously rotating around it. In order all this crap to be proven, is being used fake science, very carefully and systematically build from each possible thing of each possible science, that is hard to be proven, or is impossible to be proven in the current moment, and on these bases is being developed further in a pervert way an entire fake science, from actual scientists, who either starve from absence of money, or have absolutely no scientific moral and very plausably are being payed from some religious organizations to do this soup with shits.

It is far beyond the capabilities of an ordinary idiot to do such a developed and misleading scientific junk. We are talking here for guided, carefully developed, intentional misleading pseudo science, build only for the purpose to show, that God exists, and everything written in the bible, including the dumbest thing is an undisprovable fact.

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seivtcho said:
It is not the village idiots. The problem is much harder to be resolved. It is the religion making a crusade against the science. You can't even imagine what nonsenses are being tried to be established as an official science. There are scientists, who are propagating, that the Earth is flat, it is only several thousand years old, and it is impossible to be millions of years old, the evolution didn't happen at all, the radio carbon test for date... [snip for brevity]

There are no scientists proposing that the world is flat. There are people, like "Doctor" David Anderson for example, who falsely claim to be scientists and make such silly statements. There are Village Idiots who don't know any better who accept that the person is a scientist. But there are no real scientists making such asinine claims.

Religion, in general, isn't making an assault on science. Politics is making the assault. It is the US education system that is more interested in political indoctrination than education that is making the assault. Your average K-12 teacher in the US can't solve even the most basic algebra problem, can't tell their students anything at all about the basic structure of an atom and are clueless about basic chemistry. They can quote chapter and verse the Gospel of global warming...no global cooling, errrr global warming; is it global cooling? Oh, fuck it all - global climate change.

You see the results here. We're doomed.

And you might think that I'm being funny when I said above warming, cooling, warming...but that's exactly how the mantra has run for the past 50 years. Every 11 years, when a new Solar cycle has begun and the short term weather (NOT climate) in North America changes from one to the other the Fruitbats claim that, NOT North America alone but the entire fucking planet has "suffered" catastrophic climate warming, eleven years later cooling, eleven years later warming and so on ad nauseum. Why do they now say "global climate change" instead of global warming or global cooling? Because neither has happened. Reality has failed to fulfill their preferred outcome. So they take the position that no matter what happens they are right because the Village Idiots won't know the difference.

We are doomed...and the Village Idiots are leading the charge. Watch. You already know who will jump in and defend global climate change.

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And as if that is not bad enough, Darby, look at who is changing data from the past to suit their political need:

https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2015/02/22/noaa-caught-cooling-the-past/

And why aren't the "consensus scientists" in an uproar about CHANGING THE PAST DATA? Because they know where their research funds come from (NOAA, among others) and so they keep their mouths shut.

Yes, we are doomed, because politics has now overtaken the one area of mankind's endeavors which, when it was incorruptible (reasonably so), was able to lift us out of the Dark Ages. Get ready for the next Dark Ages. All thanks to political expediency over scientific honesty.

RMT

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To add on to the climate change theme, can add media hype on top of everything else mentioned. Now-a-days, normal seasonal weather conditions are all "storms", and get named.

Holy Ham Hocks, 'The Leveler' is coming, prepare yourselves, and it's going to dump snow (in places where snow is normal, and in winter too). Oh the horror. Lets go live to Jim. Jim, what's it like out there ? Jim : Well, there's snow everywhere ! As a matter of fact, I'm actually standing in it. Studio : Jim, is it cold ? Jim : Yes, this snow seems to be really cold . Studio : Wow, the Leveler is living up to its name, hope everyone prepared for it. Shelter in place. Oh yeah, travel ban in effect tonight. All citizens traveling after 9 PM are subject to arrest. :eek:

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David, you still needn't be so silent, too silent w. me, contrarily, as far, as I'M concerned, that money ideal is still a symbol & a repetition of the fact that the more, you please let me in on your t. tr. knowledge issue, whatever God is 'perfect' or not, the more both of us etc. can get away w. quite a lot, an issue, even your lawyer deserves to see as a good morality advantage, so I can find out & so on, good luck to us all, my best wishes, David etc., J.A. P.S.: yes, there is also a semi-ac. guitar, Wendy, w. me, if The T. Tr.'s impossible, my own & good news is just another issue that morally & still gives me no obligation, whatsoever that I can 'testify' to being happy w. any risk, whatsoever that my DK mother can seem to be legally against me being just myself, (maybe it's her envy that always 'has' to win(?)).

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When I see someone ranting about time travel, and guitars, God, women.... I'm thinking someone watched Bill and Ted and did a lot of hard drugs. And it all got mixed up into a pot of juicy goodness.

- Or maybe he's a real time traveler doing whatever time travelers do.

- Or maybe it's a ghost in the machine. An experimental A.I. that's run amok and may or may not be from the future, posting here in a frantic attempt to communicate with beings it doesn't understand.

But seriously, that was weird stuff.

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