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Mylo.X.

Is the Earth stationary, or does it revolve around the sun?

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David is most certainly a doctor, I know (next to) nothing about, see no hard evid. that I can say that much about, lest & till he can write me right now, to tell me, what his good news is, e.g., if The T. Machine HAS any obligation to be tachyon controlled, best wishes, J.A.

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Guittimetraveller said:
David is most certainly a doctor, I know (next to) nothing about, see no hard evid. that I can say that much about, lest & till he can write me right now, to tell me, what his good news is, e.g., if The T. Machine HAS any obligation to be tachyon controlled, best wishes, J.A.

WTF?

I swear to God that the above is actually English. But why would anyone post a random assembly of English words that, as a paragraph, makes no sense at all?

It seems that we have been invaded by non-English speakers, i.e. Italians (and a few Germans). I have no problem whatsoever with people from other countries. However, I don't try to fake speaking (writing in this case) their language(s). Therefore why do they fake writing mine?

Folks, if you don't actually read, write and speak English don't try to fake it. Especially don't try to fake it if your native language is Romance based. English is Germanic (Anglo-Frisian), not Romantic. Trying to fake English from a Romance perspective results in lots of laughs, poorly constructed syntax and little in the way of understanding your post. And don't use Google Translate. It's awful!

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Darby said:
WTF?

I swear to God that the above is actually English. But why would anyone post a random assembly of English words that, as a paragraph, makes no sense at all?

It seems that we have been invaded by non-English speakers, i.e. Italians (and a few Germans). I have no problem whatsoever with people from other countries. However, I don't try to fake speaking (writing in this case) their language(s). Therefore why do they fake writing mine?

Folks, if you don't actually read, write and speak English don't try to fake it. Especially don't try to fake it if your native language is Romance based. English is Germanic (Anglo-Frisian), not Romantic. Trying to fake English from a Romance perspective results in lots of laughs, poorly constructed syntax and little in the way of understanding your post. And don't use Google Translate. It's awful!

There are certain brain diseases and conditions, that have such a symptom - talking and writing in such an "random assembly". So, you may not be invaded. Simply some of your native people may have such a disease or such a condition.

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I want to get mad and call them out for trolling and being attention whores, but let's face it. When you talk about anything that fascinates Fox Mulder it's going to attract that element of the world's population that uses hair spray as a nebulizer.

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Back to the original question. Almost every bit of research in Space-science and astronomy tests the central tenets of both Special and General Relativity. the equivalence principle and the Relativistic structure of 4-space. The "heliocentric" solar system is so well established and so much a cornerstone of all space science that it is not directly tested, except for studies about the Oort cloud, but the truth of the basic principles of celestial mechanics would fall apart with every planetary and beyond (e.g., Voyager). The Michaelson/Morley experiment is the keystone of modern physics, and all of the tests of General Relativity are, ultimately, designed to uphold the validity of the results. Galilleo may have been forced to recant his observations, but remember "Eppur si muove"

Simplicio may have refused to look through a telescope, try it. Even the Catholic church has recanted it's persecution of Galilleo. Geocentrism and flat-Earthism have been thoroughly disproved. There may yet be some improvement of General Relativity. But no revival of geocentrism, except for some Me party supporters. Smoke, smoke, smoke that cigarette.

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The Sun revolves around the centre of our galaxy - the Milky Way. Have a look at the approximate position of our sun and our solar system. However, in the insignificantly small humans' eyes, the stars, the sun, the moon and the galaxy looks like revolving around us in the sky, it is only an optical illusion based on the location of the point of view of the camera. When you stand on the ground of the earth looking up to the sky, you see things with self awareness of yourself as the centre point of view or perception. Both interpretations of earth revolve around the sun, or sun and stars revolve around the earth are valid, but only in the different point of view of how you see things. The only difference is where you put the camera, fixed on the ground, on a single point on the crust of the earth looking upward, or put the camera in space, in a stationary position? But if you put your camera in space, is it stationary like somewhere outside the spinning galaxy, where you see the sun is moving and revolving around the centre of the galaxy, or do you put the camera in station position in relation to the position of the sun which moves as the sun moves, so that in that perspective you see the planets in the solar system revolve around the sun as the stationary centre of the solar system (which is actually revolving a larger galaxy system itself)?

The interpretation of the which object revolve which other object depends on if you put the lens and see things from a point related to:

A) a fixed point on the ground of earth

B) a fixed point in the solar system in relation to the sun.

C) a fixed stationary point outside the galaxy and see the milky way as a whole giant spinning galaxy.

Look at the picture in this post for a clearer understanding of the position of our solar system.

[missing attachment]

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"Raquel H. said:
I want to get mad and call them out for trolling and being attention whores, but let's face it. When you talk about anything that fascinates Fox Mulder it's going to attract that element of the world's population that uses hair spray as a nebulizer.

Well, you are right.

But, the majority of people here (I hope) don't even use a regular nebulizer. How beneficial is it for those of us who want to read a serious thread, on an interesting subject, to often bump on a series of abbreviated, italic nonsense from Jupiter, that has absolutely nothing to do with the original topic?

I mean, I know we can always ignore them, like I do sometimes. This is more like a first-world-problem type of thing.

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thomas pendrake said:
The "heliocentric" solar system is so well established and so much a cornerstone of all space science that it is not directly tested

It's not tested as such because we have direct observational evidence via satellites and space probes. There's no longer any imaginable reason to conduct experiments.

Frankly, if the geocentric theory were correct we wouldn't be posting on this forum. The reason that we wouldn't be posting on this forum is because every law of physics that we know would be entirely wrong which means there would be no theory called General Relativity thus no basis for time travel.

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It is only the perspective, the point of view, all 3 theories are valid from their view of observation:

A) a fixed point on the ground of earth (geocentric model)

B) a fixed point in the solar system in relation to the sun. (heliocentric model)

C) a fixed stationary point outside the galaxy and see the milky way as a whole giant spinning galaxy. (helical model)

Helical model:

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One very real proof for the heliocentric model is stellar paralax, the apparent shift in position of stars closer to Earth during the year. Stellar paralax is used to measure the distance to the closer stars. The diameter of the Earth, the distance to the moon, the diameter of the moon, and the distance to the sun were measured with a fair degree of accuracy before 200 BC. but stellar paralax requires modern astronomical equipment to measure.

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I simultaneously find it simply astounding, rather depressing, and fairly exasperating that today, in 2015, there are still people who will obstinately deny and denounce centuries of hard, demonstrable science and maintain that the sun orbits the Earth, or that the Earth is flat, or that the Earth is only a few thousand years old, or favour simplistic creation myths over the science of evolution and biochemistry, or claim that moonlight is actually generated by the moon itself rather being reflected sunlight, etc, etc, etc. It all makes even the likes of anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers seem downright enlightened and reasonable by comparison.

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 @Darby , could you elaborate more on the concept of solar cycle? I've never heard of this before and I sure would like to learn more about it. ?

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The reason I created this thread, was simply because I found it amazing that people still think that the sun orbits the earth (with the planets orbiting the sun). There are a number of catholic scientists who will adamantly defend this view. For the sake of repeating myself, I believe (due to stellar parallax etc) that the sun does NOT orbit the earth. Here is a trailer of the film by those who propose that the earth is the centre of the universe:

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Nicolas said:

@Darby , could you elaborate more on the concept of solar cycle? I've never heard of this before and I sure would like to learn more about it. ?

http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question17.html

http://www.universetoday.com/103803/solar-cycle-24-on-track-to-be-the-weakest-in-100-years/

Among many others if you search on "11 year solar cycle". RMT

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As far as I know it's the Earth that's revolving around the sun, making one complete revolution every year. But then again there are also strong points that say it's the other way around. I really can't tell alone which is which unless the theory has been verified as a fact. Well to add to that, it's also possible that both the Earth and the sun are revolving around each other.

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I presume this thread has been snipped, due to going off topic?

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"Mylo.X. said:
I presume this thread has been snipped, due to going off topic?

Yes, see new thread entitled "Genesis vs. Evolution" in same forum.

RMT

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RainmanTime said:
Yes, see new thread entitled "Genesis vs. Evolution" in same forum.

RMT

Cheers, Rainman.

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The basic question, is the Earth stationary........., applies to the question of rationalism vs empiricism. This is how the question of atheism, a rationalist dogma, ended up in the discussion.

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thomas pendrake said:
The basic question, is the Earth stationary.........,

Very good point. As far as I understand, we have not found any matter (and certainly no energy) in our universe that is stationary. Either that, or everything in the universe is stationary, with respect to any super-universe at a higher level. Choose yer poison? ?

RMT

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Something is turning or revolving so everything from the seasons to daylight changes. I can't say what since I've never been to space but I do feel Earth is moving around the solar system. Though dose anyone know if the sun turns?

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Demon_skeith said:
Something is turning or revolving so everything from the seasons to daylight changes. I can't say what since I've never been to space but I do feel Earth is moving around the solar system. Though dose anyone know if the sun turns?

Not really, no, but it's not like a solid body. Think of it like a whirlpool, just spherical - the outer portions spin much faster than the inner portion. Jupiter and any other gaseous bodies rotate like this too, as far as I know. The only bodies that rotate at a constant speed are solid bodies like Earth, Mars, Mercury, and Venus.

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Lol. Our galaxy's diameter is 100.000 light years ????

OMG numbers every time make things in universe bigger than you can imagine them!!

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RainmanTime said:
Very good point. As far as I understand, we have not found any matter (and certainly no energy) in our universe that is stationary. Either that, or everything in the universe is stationary, with respect to any super-universe at a higher level. Choose yer poison? ?

RMT

This is where the uncertainty principle comes into relevance. For an object to have a definite position at any time, it must have an infinite velocity. Of course, we can actually only think of this concept with an elementary particle, anything bigger will have a fuzzy position due to the microscopic vibrations associated with temperature. But even more importantly, we have questions of position and what exactly is your frame of reference? And, yes, anywhere in the universe there seems to be gravity, since nothing can be totally remote from other parts of the universe. Gravity results in acceleration in the known Universe.

This gets us back to the solar system. The same person who first gave us an understanding of gravity (Gallileo) looked at the solar system through a telescope and saw that those ancient Greek philosophers who saw evidence of the Heliocentric solar system and even measured the major dimensions of it were correct. there is no evidence to suggest that the Universe is actually geocentric.

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Is the Earth stationary, or does it revolve around the sun?

I've been waiting for someone to (please) answer the question - with the correct answer no less.

Is the Earth stationary? No. This isn't a relativistic situation. That's part of the reason why Special Relativity is stated in such concise terms - in a vacuum, uniform motion of translation without rotation. Observers on objects moving in straight lines at constant velocity and not rotating cannot unambiguously state that they are in motion or at rest with respect to any other object.

Observers on rotating bodies can state unambiguously that they are in motion even if there is no other object with which to measure their relative velocity. They are rotating - its an accelerated frame. They can detect the forces acting on them.

Is the Earth rotating? Yes. We can detect the forces. Is it revolving (orbiting)? Yes. We can detect the forces.

Is the Earth orbiting the Sun or is the Sun orbiting the Earth? The technically correct answer is neither. Both objects are co-orbiting a gravitational barycenter that is located deep inside the Sun. Their paths along their orbits are hugely complex because the Sun's mass varies and Jupiter and Saturn (and to a lesser degree the other planets) are also co-orbiting barycenters deep inside the Sun.

But for all practical purposes the Earth orbits the Sun. No ifs, no ands and no buts. The Earth orbits the Sun. There's nothing to debate.

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