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TimeTravelActivist

Anti-Time Travel

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TimeTravel Activist says:

 

"But you know what? Your off topic..."

 

Oh? Says who?

 

Wrong! Again!

 

Look at the the title of THIS board. It's called ANTI-TIME TRAVEL. DUH!

 

And then you as some sort of "Junior" member, (whatever that means,) have the audacity to put up a link and say "go post there".

 

Gee...Thanks. Last I heard the First Amendment was still alive and well in the US which is where I come from. Just who is it you think you are to tell me where to go post? This YOUR personal board or something? (yawn)

 

And then....

 

 

"This is to discuss whether time travel will screw up our world regardless if it's proven real or not. I hope this helps in your future postings on this topic. Thanks =)."

 

Oh spare me your smug little patronizations. Having a bad hair day are we?

 

Now if you want to discuss the possibilities in HOW time travel could be achieved, lets go for it. But first lets get this little chip off your shoulder and this smiley Junior High School Boy attitude out of your demeanor and THEN we can talk.

 

And then in a later post you say "If you're also against Time Travel, please post your Anti-Time Travel Idea's here. Thank you."

 

Well. Gee! You're welcome!

 

Now how about being at least consistent. Either you want to read anti-time travel posts or you don't. Make up your mind.

-----

For everyone else,

 

Hey, I never said Time Travel was impossible. Just that it is as yet unproven. Perhaps we could discuss the possibilities in reversing worm holes or the now infamous "Einstein Bridge" at the quantum level. Seems to me this is where the possibilities lie if there indeed are any.

 

The logic of multiple dimensions however escapes me because it seems like there would either have to be only one, or an infinite number of them. This would be a problem for free will would it not? As was pointed out before by someone.

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Whatever, Your a foo foo head =). Right guys?

At least I'm a member, and your not. Haha.

 

-Javier C.

 

P.S. This post has always been about Anti-Time Travel. Your the one who came in here and went off topic. U.S. Rights don't work on the Internet. The government doesn't regulate it, it's Global. Maybe you did't know that, but it's true, it's true. You think your Oprah? Well I'm saying "No" to you.

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I thought this whole board was about how time travel will happen. I agree with Valkerie - we want optimism. Everything TTA says is so pessimistic. I expect if someone had a terminal illness but was given a glimmer of hope by medics, you would be there saying be realistic it's not going to work - get my drift.

 

Time travel is a hope for some of us, may be a dream that we don't want spoilt.

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Pessimistic. No, more like discussing the Con's of Time Travel. You know what Con is right, like in the pro's and con's...?

 

I guess some of you really don't like having their dreams (delusions) being spoiled. Well there's many other area's in the message board where you can talk about them. You don't see me there talking bad about them there. You came into the wrong area to post if you thought this would be an optimistic place to talk about Time Travel (hence the subject name, Anti-Time Travel) I will repeat it again, this is the posting area for those who wish to post idea on Anti-Time Travel, not Pro Time Travel.

 

We need to cover the opposing side too, don't any of you think?

 

Thank you very much =).

 

Truly,

Javier C.

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TTA- you don't want discussion of any kind other then everyone agreeing with you. We were all under the mistaken opinion that you wanted others views. You should't go to a time travel message board to discuss your view of GOD's plan. Try a church. I believe most of us hope God gave us great minds as part of his plan to discover the mysteries of the universe. The rest of us are here filled with awe and excitement at the possibility of time travel. You are the odd man out. You may be right but I don't care. I still thrill at the possibilities. If Dr. Anderson is a snob fine. I admire his work and could care less if he ignores me and puts his quest ahead of fan mail. All of us are foo foo and it's wonderful.

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Thanks for the support people. It really is tough to figure out where a guy like TTA is really coming from when even he can't be consistent with himself.

 

But on to the topic.

 

In a way, I actually AM anti-time travel since most of the usual methods that postulate how it could be so are really dead ends for me. For instance:

 

Time machine? I don't think so. A time machine not only has to take you to "somewhen" in time, it also has to take you to the "somewhere" the events or period occurred (or WILL occur). Problem there is that the universe is expanding at a rate that is not exactly calculatable in the first place with respect to any position within it. In other words, just "where" do you think you are going? Not just "when".

 

Multiple Dimensions:

For any dimension to have been created by an event in itself could only mean to me that there must be infinite dimensions. If this is so, then how can the human mind engage in independent thought since with infinite dimensions, everything that could possibly happen already has, or is happenning right now. In some dimension. If we have no control over this, and it exists outside the realm of our control or even understanding, why do we bother thinking about anything at all. The Free Will argument if you will. And how would this really constitute Time travel anyway? Isn't it just "dimension hopping" like in "Sliders"?

 

Worm holes:

In theory, great for transversing great distances in short time spans (obviously way faster than light), but how is this Time Travel. Isn't it just a foreshortening of distance that exists outside the speed of light limit? And what physical matter can withstand the forces involved anyway.

 

Black Holes:

Nope. The laws of physics as we know them say all matter is rent at the quantum level as one nears the event horizon. Even if a time tunnel were there, who could survive the experience. Again.

 

Quantum Bridges:

Hmmm. Particle accelerators cause events to occur that lead to speculation on the possibilities at this level. But it's a major stretch to figure how something that only MAY occur at the sub-atomic level could ever be reproduced on a macro-cosmic scale.

 

Alas, the problems seem insurmountable. But then we have only our as yet undeveloped intelligence and lack of understanding of many things holding us back.

 

Now we can finally get to a point that TTA has that does seem valid. Is it ethical?

 

Ask yourself if you're ok with me going back in time and doing something that results in a change to YOUR future? Are you cool with that? Not me.

 

If we ever do discover that time travel is indeed possible, we will have to address this issue. Don't you think?

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Lets not be so hard on TTA. I think he is very opinionated because of some things that are happening in his life. some things that are hard to understand. which are producing a very anti-time travel attitude in himself.

 

lets not fight and we really should respect each others opinions. even if we dont agree.thats where the greatest things are discussed when we can talk both sides of the issues.

 

Quantum bridges and particle acceleraters sounds like a good topic, Valkerie.

 

You know what really makes me mad, everybody talks about that show "sliders" and i have never got to see it...not even once. =(

maybe someday.....=)

more later...got to go.

 

 

<This message has been edited by pamela (edited 24 May 2000).>

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TTA is a tool of the government!! DO NOT LISTEN TO THEM!!!!! they only want to stop us from time travel so they can travel without competition!!! they even go so low as to insult you!! how's that for childish!!

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Gilgamesh,

 

I see that this is your first posting, your only 13 and from Irvine? Is that Irvine, California? If it is, I live around there =). Want to say that to me again?

 

I am not a tool for any organization. The post office wouldn't accept me =) j/p. Anyway's I think we might have gotten off on the wrong foot here. Everybody thinks I'm this crazy loone who's only interested in spreading garbage, or whatever. Bare with me, I been at work all day, so let me try and explain my self here.

 

Oh by the way, sorry for calling you a foo foo head Valkerie, I misjudged you. I'm sorry. You understand my point that I been trying to make =).

 

I think me and only a few others in this whole message board understand how it would feel to time travel and change somebody's Life. It's going to come with a big price to Humanity and everything we stand for if we change the past, and we need to start discussing the Pro's and Con's for it now. Unfortunately most of you don't want to listen to reason.

 

You all don't know what I been through in my life, yet you judge me. I'm trying to get my message across to people who want to listen that Time Travel is wrong. Your changing someone's Life. Doesn't that mean anything to any of you? Or do you all don't care that someone may lose out if not at the right place at the right time, how he was meant to be. You all don't have a right to mess with someone's life.

 

I'm not a religious person, but I do know that violating someone's life because we think it's the right thing to do, is wrong. You just can't assume that the person will be OK with that. You can't judge people if you don't even know them. Which is exactly what your all doing to me? But I'm a forgiving person, so I forgive you all =)...

 

But anyway's Think about it... Anyone want to discuss the Con's of Time Travel now? Not forcing you to take my opinions, just to hear them out and decide if it's right or not. Once you start to see what Time Travel is doing, you'll see what I been trying to say for the longest time. Bye bye now, take care all.

 

Truly,

Javier C.

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TTA, everyone keeps assuming that time travel will mess with our lives. Quite possibly it could have no effect on us. Not every scientist wants to go back in time to assinate your grandpa. As for having my life path tampered with; the human spirit and drive, not to mention personal tastes and interests woul be with you in any life. If time has been tampered with already just think you might have been homeless in your former history and may be a billionare if someone changes things again. Instead of fearing the worst, just think of the wonderful possibilities.

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mokrie dela,

 

Your the prime example of the type of attitude the majority of people like you out there have about Time Travel. Isn't it sad? Do you honestly don't see anything wrong with it? Do you not see a downside to it? Are you so caught up in it that you can't allow your self to see that Time Travel is wrong? "Thinking about the Wonderful Things?"

 

What am I, Delusional? No, I don't think so. Your not considering the ramifications of Time Travel. It's a Domino Effect when it comes to altering people's actions and decisions. Things don't always happen as wonderful as you perceive it to be. Time Travel is not the solution to all of our problems, and it will not bring wonderful things. Trust me on this...

 

It may be like a brand new present for you, and you can't wait to tear open the beautiful wrapping paper and bow. But inside it may not be what you expected, and you won't be able to stop it once it's opened.

 

You never been in the situation so you wouldn't understand. But try putting you self in the shoes of a man that wasn't meant to be something, or was. How can you live with your self knowing that you "Man" played God and fooled someone? Don't you have a conscience? Let it be your guide.

 

Would you like a Time Traveler to change your life? Make you a rich man, successful?

 

If you would, your a Cheater. Not only cheating on your self, but on your life.

 

What about if you were the victim of some Time Traveler changing your life so you won't invent something or do something significant, or meet the girl of your dreams and marry and be happy. How would you feel then?

 

See, it's not until it happens to you is when you consider how it can apply to you. This also applies to everyone. You want this to be the worlds Fate? Or keep thinking your in the Matrix, so to speak. "Ignorance is bliss." But not for me and a small minority of people who still have some human integrity in them to know the difference between right and wrong. Think about that for minute please, before you decide to respond. Thank you.

 

Yours truly,

Javier C.

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Javier.....You made me think of Pandoras box.

things are going along ok and then something happens to the accelerator..it breaks down in the middle of operating..it shifts...my God! we just had a rift of time open up from the dino days and ten raptors have just escaped in California roaming the streets......I could picture something like that. actually it sounds like a dream I had.. hehehe =) all kidding aside though....I can see where you are coming from. I could see the unethical side to it. I could see the military wanted it to win wars etc. etc. geez. can you imagine how many disturbances there would be in ONE area as different countries tried over and over to change the outcomes of wars? people from different time zones wandering around ..confused......lost..disappearing..reappearing... How many times could things be changed before the whole Earth would be dimensionally tore apart? it would all come down to control wouldnt it? I can see your side of it.

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The question of ethics is really rather rhetorical isn't it. I re-iterated it because in a certain sense, I can see problems in the conventional thinking on time travel. But the key words here are "rhetorical" and "conventional."

 

Dr. Stephen Hawking has already postulated that the Universe probably has some as yet undiscovered mechanism that prevents time travel in any conventional sense of the term. Because, all scenarios of conventional time travel lead to a paradox. (Be they "forward" or backward".) Dr. Hawking does not think the Universe HAS any paradoxes and neither do I. Hence, time travel AS WE USUALLY THINK OF IT is impossible. The ethical question then evaporates with this reasoning. No sense fretting about the results of something that can't be done in the first place.

 

But...if quantum theories can come to the conclusion that quanta (quarks, Leptons Hadrons etc.) can be shown to behave in a manner that contradicts cause and effect, might it not lead to at least the possibility that the result of some action could be predicted before the action takes place itself? Does this constitute time travel?

 

If you're still with me on this, how then might the Heisenberg principle actually be the culprit causing the results of the particle experiments to remain questionable due to this uncertainty?

 

Any thoughts on the likelyhood of alleged "bubbles" or a foam structure to the universe as postulated by string theory? Any doorways there?

 

I confess, when considering travelling to the "past" or the "future", I can't see how it could NOT lead to a paradox. Surely going to the past and killing your grandfather before your father was even born must be something that is universally impossible to do. Just as going to the future and witnessing a scenario defined by random events that haven't even taken place yet.

 

Are we really certain there actually IS a past or a future. Are they not just concepts we use to describe our passage thru the eternal now. Like standing in a river. A given quart of water just passed through your legs. But THAT quart of water no longer exists upstream, and you'd be hard pressed to ever find that same exact quart of water further on down.

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Scientist,

Who are you refering to, and what are you talking about...? For someone who accuses us of not having the grand knowledge you seem to poseses about Time Travel, you sure are vague and unwilling to share your ideas. Prove it to us. Show us that our common sense of the events time travel will make are false.

 

Your all talk... Let's see if you got any bite to that bark of yours.

 

-Javier C.

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I am unwilling to share my ideas with you because I want the credit for them and they have not been published yet. If someone were to help me find a respected journal to get my theories published in then I will share them. But only after publication.

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Mankind will never stop in it's quest for knowledge, it's desire to go beyond boundries. It has brought us to the technologies and medicine we have today. Our curiosity is insatiable. With every gain is a tradgedy. This is life. Sad but true. Scientist, you say we know nothing. Maybe so. But at least we're talking and that has always led to doing. To me this is a good thing.

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mokrie dela,

 

I disagree, that's no excuse for humanity to allow something wrong to happen. Your right though about our curiosity and our never ending thirst to gain knowledge.

 

But that can't justify the "End justify the means" kinda attitude we must all have.

 

We'll have to have some ethics in the way we use things. Like in medicine and other fields. Like I said again, the opposing side must be emphasized too. Your still only seeing it one sided. Think about the other side for once.

 

"If you can't argue both sides you know nothing." -Unknown-

 

Truly,

Javier C.

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OK "Scientist", if everyone here is so "ignorant" and you have theories you want published, how about sharing at least what the ideas behind some of these theories are?

 

It's one thing to claim to have the answers, it another entirely to demonstrate them. Or are they a secret and we have to "take your word" for it? If secret, I guess you better not publish them. If not, let's hear them. So far you haven't really SAID anything except to rail against someone elses Religious views. What does that have to do with Time Travel?

 

Tell us... What IS Time Travel and how can you prove it is possible? I await your answer with baited breath. I'd LOVE to think it MIGHT be possible. Show us how.

 

As to whether one chooses to believe in a God or not, I repeat, what does THAT have to do with anything relative to the issue?

 

You know what, I'll bet you take that last statement and use it to presume something about me. And I'll further bet your presumption will be wrong.

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OK "Scientist", if everyone here is so "ignorant" and you have theories you want published, how about sharing at least what the ideas behind some of these theories are?

 

It's one thing to claim to have the answers, it another entirely to demonstrate them. Or are they a secret and we have to "take your word" for it? If secret, I guess you better not publish them. If not, let's hear them. So far you haven't really SAID anything except to rail against someone elses Religious views. What does that have to do with Time Travel?

 

Tell us... What IS Time Travel and how can you prove it is possible? I await your answer with baited breath. I'd LOVE to think it MIGHT be possible. Show us how.

 

As to whether one chooses to believe in a God or not, I repeat, what does THAT have to do with anything relative to the issue?

 

You know what, I'll bet you take that last statement and use it to presume something about me. And I'll further bet your presumption will be wrong.

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Even though I believe that I have nothing to prove I will share some vague ideas with you. My theories deal with the fourth dimension, the expansion of the universe, black holes, gravity, faster than light travel, anti-gravity, time and how they are all related. If you have heard of some of these ideas before you may be thinking of Einstien's theory of relativity my theories will correct some of the errors in that theory as well as fill in some of the blanks. However my theory is not just a relativity theory my theory deals with much more and relates everthing back to one thing which actually causes the effect of time.

 

<This message has been edited by Scientist (edited 25 May 2000).>

 

<This message has been edited by Scientist (edited 25 May 2000).>

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Scientist:

geez....I hope its in one I read:

scientific America

http://www.sciam.com

 

Science-American Association for the advancement of Science.

1200 New York Ave, NW Washington, DC 20005 http://www.aaas.org

 

science news: http://www.sciencenews.org

 

popular science:

http://www.popsci.com

 

new scientist:

http://www.newscientist.com

 

discover: http://www.discover.com

 

 

 

 

<This message has been edited by pamela (edited 30 May 2000).>

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Discover and Popular Science don't publish theories. Science News only publishes articles written by thier editors. So I emailed scientific american and I will try some of the others that pamela suggested.

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